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<blockquote data-quote="Empirate" data-source="post: 5523237" data-attributes="member: 78958"><p>As far as I can tell, being flat-footed is a world apart from being surprised. The two are not the same thing: when you're surprised, you are flat-footed in the surprise round AND you don't even get to act.</p><p></p><p>So awareness that <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> is going to go down has nothing to do with the flat-footed rule.</p><p>Combat is a highly dynamic, hectic situation, in which everybody is constantly moving around as much as they can, trying to get hits in while dodging others, trying to dissuade others from attacking by feinting, riposting etc. The abstract D&D combat system translates this into a Dex bonus to armor class.</p><p></p><p>Prior to you starting to move around a lot, i.e. prior to your first turn, you're NOT moving around in combat-fashion. You're an easier target. Your opponent doesn't have to worry about your already incoming attack just yet. "He who strikes first often strikes last" - that's what the flat-footed rule is about.</p><p></p><p>The situation in which everybody is aware that this is going to be combat <em>at some point </em>is much different from a situation that <em>has actually</em> turned into a combat. People may be on their toes before, but only the first strike lets loose the dogs of war, so to speak.</p><p></p><p>Inititative is not a Wis or Int check, so it's not about awareness. It's a Dex check, so it's about pure quickness. When your player argues that hitting first is ample reward for getting a high Initiative, he discounts the fact that first hits wouldn't differ from second or third hits then. I believe they should differ in that they'd be easier to get in - which is exactly what the flat-footed rule provides.</p><p></p><p>You can play it the way your player argues it should be, sure. But I believe it detracts from tactics (and many character schticks, like Sneak Attack), is not in any way more logical (in fact IMO it's less logical, within and without the system), and upsets game balance through several far-reaching consequences. All in all, it's just not worth it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Empirate, post: 5523237, member: 78958"] As far as I can tell, being flat-footed is a world apart from being surprised. The two are not the same thing: when you're surprised, you are flat-footed in the surprise round AND you don't even get to act. So awareness that :):):):) is going to go down has nothing to do with the flat-footed rule. Combat is a highly dynamic, hectic situation, in which everybody is constantly moving around as much as they can, trying to get hits in while dodging others, trying to dissuade others from attacking by feinting, riposting etc. The abstract D&D combat system translates this into a Dex bonus to armor class. Prior to you starting to move around a lot, i.e. prior to your first turn, you're NOT moving around in combat-fashion. You're an easier target. Your opponent doesn't have to worry about your already incoming attack just yet. "He who strikes first often strikes last" - that's what the flat-footed rule is about. The situation in which everybody is aware that this is going to be combat [I]at some point [/I]is much different from a situation that [I]has actually[/I] turned into a combat. People may be on their toes before, but only the first strike lets loose the dogs of war, so to speak. Inititative is not a Wis or Int check, so it's not about awareness. It's a Dex check, so it's about pure quickness. When your player argues that hitting first is ample reward for getting a high Initiative, he discounts the fact that first hits wouldn't differ from second or third hits then. I believe they should differ in that they'd be easier to get in - which is exactly what the flat-footed rule provides. You can play it the way your player argues it should be, sure. But I believe it detracts from tactics (and many character schticks, like Sneak Attack), is not in any way more logical (in fact IMO it's less logical, within and without the system), and upsets game balance through several far-reaching consequences. All in all, it's just not worth it. [/QUOTE]
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