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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5534919" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>He does indeed have a valid argument. I'll get to that below.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He shouldn't be. I can see a penalty to AC. That'd account for poor defense until someone gains their bearing. But to have the exact same mechanic that applies to being completely surprised apply to a fight where you knew it was coming? I don't like it, and neither does he.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I think his problem is that the two conditions (being caught completely unaware and adjusting to combat you know is coming) share one mechanic. That's understandable.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>That makes sense to me, too.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Awesome. I'm glad you've decided, it's important to do as a GM. I don't run my game with this rule, but most other GMs (rare though they may be) that I play with (rare though it is... my players always make me GM) use the RAW. That's fine by me. GM's game, GM's rules <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No unified mechanic will make sense to him when addressing the two situations. And how can it, reasonably?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, here's where I get to how his argument is reasonable (and logical). Look at the other threads in this forum. People are constantly making calls based on common sense.</p><p></p><p>Look at the Hide thread. People talking about facing, out-of-combat facing, cover or concealment, hiding in plain sight through magical or supernatural means versus extraordinary means, somebody having concealment or cover because the guy on watch is facing the other way (and thus his own head provides the ability to make Hide checks), etc.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure you use common sense when you're GMing. Pretty much every GM does, when the rules are hazy or don't cover something. That's normal. Now, as it's well established that common sense has a place in the game, he is reasonably expecting it to be applied here.</p><p></p><p>You may not want to change the rule. I totally support your decision to make that call, overriding the player. Sometimes the game rules have to bypass simulation. I understand that.</p><p></p><p>That's why I suggest talking to him from a balance perspective. He's correct when he thinks that there should not be a unified mechanic for those two situations. Maybe flat-footed for surprised rounds make more sense, and a flat -2 to AC for people who haven't acted yet. Or maybe flat-footed for everyone, and those who haven't acted yet can roll a Reflex save against an attack to see if they're flat-footed.</p><p></p><p>Or, like you've chosen, it's time to play by RAW. If that's the case, tell him you've made the decision for balance reasons, and that you don't want to micromanage combat anymore than it already is. That's perfectly valid. And it's your game. </p><p></p><p>I'm also under the impression they're fairly new players, so tell them you might be willing to house rule more when everyone is used to playing the game... maybe right around the time they make new characters and can branch away from all being one class. The more you learn, the more you can make exceptions. That's almost universally true.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>If you want that type of in-game reason, you're going to find your argument wanting. If you want an out-of-game reason... well, I hope I've helped. </p><p></p><p>At the end of the day, it's about fun. It's your game, you make the rules. Play what you like <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5534919, member: 6668292"] He does indeed have a valid argument. I'll get to that below. He shouldn't be. I can see a penalty to AC. That'd account for poor defense until someone gains their bearing. But to have the exact same mechanic that applies to being completely surprised apply to a fight where you knew it was coming? I don't like it, and neither does he. Well, I think his problem is that the two conditions (being caught completely unaware and adjusting to combat you know is coming) share one mechanic. That's understandable. That makes sense to me, too. Awesome. I'm glad you've decided, it's important to do as a GM. I don't run my game with this rule, but most other GMs (rare though they may be) that I play with (rare though it is... my players always make me GM) use the RAW. That's fine by me. GM's game, GM's rules :) No unified mechanic will make sense to him when addressing the two situations. And how can it, reasonably? Okay, here's where I get to how his argument is reasonable (and logical). Look at the other threads in this forum. People are constantly making calls based on common sense. Look at the Hide thread. People talking about facing, out-of-combat facing, cover or concealment, hiding in plain sight through magical or supernatural means versus extraordinary means, somebody having concealment or cover because the guy on watch is facing the other way (and thus his own head provides the ability to make Hide checks), etc. I'm sure you use common sense when you're GMing. Pretty much every GM does, when the rules are hazy or don't cover something. That's normal. Now, as it's well established that common sense has a place in the game, he is reasonably expecting it to be applied here. You may not want to change the rule. I totally support your decision to make that call, overriding the player. Sometimes the game rules have to bypass simulation. I understand that. That's why I suggest talking to him from a balance perspective. He's correct when he thinks that there should not be a unified mechanic for those two situations. Maybe flat-footed for surprised rounds make more sense, and a flat -2 to AC for people who haven't acted yet. Or maybe flat-footed for everyone, and those who haven't acted yet can roll a Reflex save against an attack to see if they're flat-footed. Or, like you've chosen, it's time to play by RAW. If that's the case, tell him you've made the decision for balance reasons, and that you don't want to micromanage combat anymore than it already is. That's perfectly valid. And it's your game. I'm also under the impression they're fairly new players, so tell them you might be willing to house rule more when everyone is used to playing the game... maybe right around the time they make new characters and can branch away from all being one class. The more you learn, the more you can make exceptions. That's almost universally true. If you want that type of in-game reason, you're going to find your argument wanting. If you want an out-of-game reason... well, I hope I've helped. At the end of the day, it's about fun. It's your game, you make the rules. Play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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