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<blockquote data-quote="Jack7" data-source="post: 5138979" data-attributes="member: 54707"><p>It depends a great deal upon whether you believe, and more to the point, whether the universe actually is, a closed system, or an open system? If it is an open system then where does "lost" matter, mass, and/or energy go?</p><p></p><p>If the universe is truly a closed system and the laws of thermodynamics are true, then it is hard to imagine anything being truly lost due to any reaction. However as Umbran implied much depends on how one seeks to measure loss.</p><p></p><p>Does matter converted to energy loss mass in relation to the total mass of the universe (the question I suspect you are actually asking) or does it merely lose mass in relation to the matter converted as dependant upon the physical confines (operational area) of the reaction. (That is to say does the mass bleed into the ambient environment to such a diffuse degree that it becomes in effect un-measurable as a practical matter (despite neither adding to or subtracting form the total mass of the universe). </p><p></p><p>Then again you have to consider this proposition when considering how you measure mass. An object in motion has a greater kinetic mass (relative to how fast it is moving, an object at light speed has infinite mass, depending upon the action of gravity and how it interacts with other objects) than an object at rest (which unless sit is large enough to generate a measurable gravitational field consists primarily of potential mass). Energy causes motion in most cases. Therefore the mass lost through conversion into propulsion (as an example of mass converted to forward momentum work force), while seemingly lessening the "motionless mass" through burn expulsion of converted fuel (I am not speaking of weight effect in a gravitational field, though movement creates a relative gravitational field) creates a relative effect of kinetic mass through velocity which tends to compensate for static loss.</p><p></p><p>Of course my examples are of physics, not biochemistry. </p><p></p><p>But the same general principles apply, except as regards living organisms. </p><p>All living organisms are open systems so loss is always occurring in truly open systems.</p><p>Living organisms have to be open or they would not require an environment.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack7, post: 5138979, member: 54707"] It depends a great deal upon whether you believe, and more to the point, whether the universe actually is, a closed system, or an open system? If it is an open system then where does "lost" matter, mass, and/or energy go? If the universe is truly a closed system and the laws of thermodynamics are true, then it is hard to imagine anything being truly lost due to any reaction. However as Umbran implied much depends on how one seeks to measure loss. Does matter converted to energy loss mass in relation to the total mass of the universe (the question I suspect you are actually asking) or does it merely lose mass in relation to the matter converted as dependant upon the physical confines (operational area) of the reaction. (That is to say does the mass bleed into the ambient environment to such a diffuse degree that it becomes in effect un-measurable as a practical matter (despite neither adding to or subtracting form the total mass of the universe). Then again you have to consider this proposition when considering how you measure mass. An object in motion has a greater kinetic mass (relative to how fast it is moving, an object at light speed has infinite mass, depending upon the action of gravity and how it interacts with other objects) than an object at rest (which unless sit is large enough to generate a measurable gravitational field consists primarily of potential mass). Energy causes motion in most cases. Therefore the mass lost through conversion into propulsion (as an example of mass converted to forward momentum work force), while seemingly lessening the "motionless mass" through burn expulsion of converted fuel (I am not speaking of weight effect in a gravitational field, though movement creates a relative gravitational field) creates a relative effect of kinetic mass through velocity which tends to compensate for static loss. Of course my examples are of physics, not biochemistry. But the same general principles apply, except as regards living organisms. All living organisms are open systems so loss is always occurring in truly open systems. Living organisms have to be open or they would not require an environment. [/QUOTE]
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