Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
EN Publishing
[For bigtino] Thread about heavy armor
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="bigtino" data-source="post: 7250097" data-attributes="member: 6912595"><p>So consider a sniper. He's got a 500 credit sniper rifle and 3 points in rifles, so he's shooting at his dice cap (let's say 6d6). That's 3d6+4 base damage. Let's add in the High Damage upgrade for 1,000 credits because he's Grade 6 or 7 and can afford it. Now we're at 4d6+4 damage. He's got Deadly Strike because there's no reason for him not to, so now we're at 5d6+4 damage. He's using HP rounds because he plans on using Aim to offset the penalty, so we're up to 6d6+4 damage. So he's rolling a 6d6 to hit, given no other modifiers, with an average damage roll of 25. If he's firing at a target in light armor, he's probably not going to trade for damage. He's got Weak Point, because all snipers should have weak point, so all of that is going straight to health.</p><p></p><p>Now, for the lightly armored target, the sniper might have a 50/50 chance of hitting him, and let's call it a 50/50 chance of the target dying in one shot. But if we have a heavily-armored character with a full helmet, someone who's rocking 12 soak because he has Tough-as-Nails and some good heavy armor that he paid a whole lot of money for, our sniper is now much happier. He can now trade two of his to-hit dice for one die of damage and keep his 50/50 hit chance, and now he's got 7d6+4 damage and a much better chance of taking down his target in one hit.</p><p></p><p>And even for someone who isn't a sniper - anyone from a stealthy SMG commando to a raging 10 strength two-handed sword berserker - Weak Point is amazing if you can get it. It takes a potentially drawn-out fight to one that can be ended with one Weak Point/Deadly Strike first hit followed by one finisher hit, and then you're on to the next guy. You don't need to use it against a target more than once because they're probably going to be dead or close to it after you do use it - and the more heavily armored they are, the more likely that is to happen.</p><p></p><p>But everyone in my game so far has found soak really easy to get past. For light armor, and even medium, that makes sense. If the team's assault gunner (using a sniper rifle like the sniper, because there are no automatic rifles for a reasonable price and he has no reason to choose an automatic rifle anyway because the damage of a sniper rifle is better than the auto bonus if you're a damage-dealer) has deadly strike, he hits for 4d6+4 damage, 18 on average. Even before AP rounds, his average damage roll without trading for damage way bypasses any existing armor in the core rulebook, and that's an amount of damage that is super easy to attain for even a Grade 5 starting character. The difference between light and heavy armor here is simply that heavy armor makes it easier for that rifleman to hit you.</p><p></p><p>I understand that bullets should be scary and no armor should ever protect you from everything always, but I do feel like armor should follow two basic rules:</p><p></p><p>1. It should, on a general level, be at least moderately useful.</p><p>2. The heavier your armor, the harder you are to damage (not necessarily harder to *hit*, just harder to damage).</p><p></p><p>Right now, I feel like light armor is useful because sometimes enemies use lasers that don't have AP rounds and it doesn't make you any easier to hit. Heavy armor, however, is almost equally-easy to bypass as light armor, and because it makes you considerably easier to hit, it's actually a hindrance more than a boon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bigtino, post: 7250097, member: 6912595"] So consider a sniper. He's got a 500 credit sniper rifle and 3 points in rifles, so he's shooting at his dice cap (let's say 6d6). That's 3d6+4 base damage. Let's add in the High Damage upgrade for 1,000 credits because he's Grade 6 or 7 and can afford it. Now we're at 4d6+4 damage. He's got Deadly Strike because there's no reason for him not to, so now we're at 5d6+4 damage. He's using HP rounds because he plans on using Aim to offset the penalty, so we're up to 6d6+4 damage. So he's rolling a 6d6 to hit, given no other modifiers, with an average damage roll of 25. If he's firing at a target in light armor, he's probably not going to trade for damage. He's got Weak Point, because all snipers should have weak point, so all of that is going straight to health. Now, for the lightly armored target, the sniper might have a 50/50 chance of hitting him, and let's call it a 50/50 chance of the target dying in one shot. But if we have a heavily-armored character with a full helmet, someone who's rocking 12 soak because he has Tough-as-Nails and some good heavy armor that he paid a whole lot of money for, our sniper is now much happier. He can now trade two of his to-hit dice for one die of damage and keep his 50/50 hit chance, and now he's got 7d6+4 damage and a much better chance of taking down his target in one hit. And even for someone who isn't a sniper - anyone from a stealthy SMG commando to a raging 10 strength two-handed sword berserker - Weak Point is amazing if you can get it. It takes a potentially drawn-out fight to one that can be ended with one Weak Point/Deadly Strike first hit followed by one finisher hit, and then you're on to the next guy. You don't need to use it against a target more than once because they're probably going to be dead or close to it after you do use it - and the more heavily armored they are, the more likely that is to happen. But everyone in my game so far has found soak really easy to get past. For light armor, and even medium, that makes sense. If the team's assault gunner (using a sniper rifle like the sniper, because there are no automatic rifles for a reasonable price and he has no reason to choose an automatic rifle anyway because the damage of a sniper rifle is better than the auto bonus if you're a damage-dealer) has deadly strike, he hits for 4d6+4 damage, 18 on average. Even before AP rounds, his average damage roll without trading for damage way bypasses any existing armor in the core rulebook, and that's an amount of damage that is super easy to attain for even a Grade 5 starting character. The difference between light and heavy armor here is simply that heavy armor makes it easier for that rifleman to hit you. I understand that bullets should be scary and no armor should ever protect you from everything always, but I do feel like armor should follow two basic rules: 1. It should, on a general level, be at least moderately useful. 2. The heavier your armor, the harder you are to damage (not necessarily harder to *hit*, just harder to damage). Right now, I feel like light armor is useful because sometimes enemies use lasers that don't have AP rounds and it doesn't make you any easier to hit. Heavy armor, however, is almost equally-easy to bypass as light armor, and because it makes you considerably easier to hit, it's actually a hindrance more than a boon. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
EN Publishing
[For bigtino] Thread about heavy armor
Top