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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7548502" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Thanks for all your comments. It's a bit of a challenge figuring out how to judiciously break from RAW to provide a more satisfying scenario for my players. Your insights are appreciated. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/glasses.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="B-)" title="Glasses B-)" data-shortname="B-)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, the function of a <em>potion of vitality</em> (which may appear in our adventure) is removing all levels of exhaustion (in addition to diseases/poison) – and that's a very rare potion compared to the common <em>potions of healing</em> the party can craft. I guess I'm concerned at the precedent that house rule would set – because once I implement, say, a <em>potion of healing</em> can be used to remove 1 exhaustion level instead of restoring 2d4+2 hp, then there's no going back. Then a <em>potion of healing</em> could function like a missed meal, a missed night of sleep, or any number of things which involve exhaustion. I'm unsure how that would effect the rest of the game.</p><p></p><p>I'd actually appreciate if you have insights into the big picture implications of such a house rule?</p><p></p><p>I suppose limiting the expenditure of <em>potions of healing</em> (for offseting exhaustion) to physical strain (i.e. forced marching or hot/cold exposure, not starvation/dehydration/sleeplessness/other sources of exhaustion) is a possibility?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, totally, that's exactly how I'd handle it too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm, well going from failing to obtain boats to navigating the river wouldn't make sense. And I can't devote pages of if-then preparation to just this one challenge. So the challenges would have to be more independent from one another, for example, merging obtaining boats/navigating the river into one of the obstacles.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Gotcha. So I'd create 3 or 4 stages of the skill challenge describing specific independent obstacles the PCs must overcome to take advantage of a specific shortcut. Each one might be handled organically and/or treated like a group skill check, such that each stage the PCs pass advances them a step from worst case scenario D towards best case scenario A. In other words...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fail all 3 stages = scenario D</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fail 2 stages = scenario C</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fail 1 stages = scenario B</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fail no stages = scenario A</li> </ul><p></p><p>And once the PCs fail a stage of the skill challenge, they have the option to each suffer a level of exhaustion to still ascend a step towards best case scenario A. Essentially, brute forcing their way through the jungle, "failing forward at a cost"?</p><p></p><p>However, the effects of this exhaustion would only accumulate and come into play at the end of the skill challenge?</p><p></p><p>And then, possibly, they can use their limited stock of <em>potions of healing</em> to selectively offset some of that exhaustion?</p><p></p><p>Is that kind of what you're thinking?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, the issue is this is a skill challenge that, potentially, leads up to a "one big fight of the day" scenario. Without those variant rules you use, Hit Dice are a daily resource (we opted to play with hardly any house rules as this was most of my players first time with 5e). Therefore, there's no reason for players to conserve HD going into this big fight. So each will use all their HD to offset as much exhaustion as possible. It's a no brainer.</p><p></p><p>In other words, their ability to mitigate exhaustion by spending HD will just reflect on how well they fared in the precious encounter (shortly after which they notice the gargoyles in flight toward the settlement Kir Sabal), and how many HD each PC has available to spend towards offsetting exhaustion.</p><p></p><p>So...it's not really presenting a meaningful choice, right?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7548502, member: 20323"] Thanks for all your comments. It's a bit of a challenge figuring out how to judiciously break from RAW to provide a more satisfying scenario for my players. Your insights are appreciated. B-) Well, the function of a [I]potion of vitality[/I] (which may appear in our adventure) is removing all levels of exhaustion (in addition to diseases/poison) – and that's a very rare potion compared to the common [I]potions of healing[/I] the party can craft. I guess I'm concerned at the precedent that house rule would set – because once I implement, say, a [I]potion of healing[/I] can be used to remove 1 exhaustion level instead of restoring 2d4+2 hp, then there's no going back. Then a [I]potion of healing[/I] could function like a missed meal, a missed night of sleep, or any number of things which involve exhaustion. I'm unsure how that would effect the rest of the game. I'd actually appreciate if you have insights into the big picture implications of such a house rule? I suppose limiting the expenditure of [I]potions of healing[/I] (for offseting exhaustion) to physical strain (i.e. forced marching or hot/cold exposure, not starvation/dehydration/sleeplessness/other sources of exhaustion) is a possibility? Yeah, totally, that's exactly how I'd handle it too. Hmm, well going from failing to obtain boats to navigating the river wouldn't make sense. And I can't devote pages of if-then preparation to just this one challenge. So the challenges would have to be more independent from one another, for example, merging obtaining boats/navigating the river into one of the obstacles. Gotcha. So I'd create 3 or 4 stages of the skill challenge describing specific independent obstacles the PCs must overcome to take advantage of a specific shortcut. Each one might be handled organically and/or treated like a group skill check, such that each stage the PCs pass advances them a step from worst case scenario D towards best case scenario A. In other words... [list][*]Fail all 3 stages = scenario D [*]Fail 2 stages = scenario C [*]Fail 1 stages = scenario B [*]Fail no stages = scenario A[/list] And once the PCs fail a stage of the skill challenge, they have the option to each suffer a level of exhaustion to still ascend a step towards best case scenario A. Essentially, brute forcing their way through the jungle, "failing forward at a cost"? However, the effects of this exhaustion would only accumulate and come into play at the end of the skill challenge? And then, possibly, they can use their limited stock of [I]potions of healing[/I] to selectively offset some of that exhaustion? Is that kind of what you're thinking? Well, the issue is this is a skill challenge that, potentially, leads up to a "one big fight of the day" scenario. Without those variant rules you use, Hit Dice are a daily resource (we opted to play with hardly any house rules as this was most of my players first time with 5e). Therefore, there's no reason for players to conserve HD going into this big fight. So each will use all their HD to offset as much exhaustion as possible. It's a no brainer. In other words, their ability to mitigate exhaustion by spending HD will just reflect on how well they fared in the precious encounter (shortly after which they notice the gargoyles in flight toward the settlement Kir Sabal), and how many HD each PC has available to spend towards offsetting exhaustion. So...it's not really presenting a meaningful choice, right? [/QUOTE]
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