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Forked: "Math and Grind" or "Why Rechan is Right" (From: "4e One-trick ponies")
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<blockquote data-quote="Rechan" data-source="post: 4646786" data-attributes="member: 54846"><p>The one problem there are circumstances where there's no way for the monster to flee, and surrender = death anyway. If the monster has no extra means of escape (flight, teleport, invisibility), and it's kinda crowded, well it's likely not going to get out of there. The latter point comes from if the monster is something like a Devil/Demon, Undead, or anything that 1) is unquestionably evil and 2) knows the PCs know this. I don't know many PCs that would let a fiend go free. In that circumstance, better to try and take the punks with you. And if it's an unintelligent undead (Skeleton, zombie), it's likely going to fight to the death anyhow. </p><p></p><p>In addition, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/249416-d-d-4th-edition-one-trick-ponies-why-dms-fault-about-combat-grind.html" target="_blank">the post that sparked this whole mess</a>, the complaint was that the DM has to use DM Fiat to prevent grind, and the OP's point is that a DM shouldn't just be responsible for dealing with grind, either players should, or the system should. </p><p></p><p>If you're okay with addressing Grind by DM Fiat, there are other options than Surrender/Flee. You can:</p><p></p><p>1) End the fight via Hand Wave, at the cost of some healing surges. "And you battle it for a few more heart-pounding seconds, but it gets its licks in before it goes down. Gimmie a healing surge and we'll call it there." </p><p>2) Treat the monster like a minion. The next hit kills it, regardless of HP total. </p><p>3) <strong>And Then Something Happened</strong>. Something that either causes the fight to end ("The ceiling collapses, blocking you from the monster"), or otherwise changes the face of the fight ("The room is now bathed in fire. Now fight this guy while the fire surrounds you"). This could even be the infusion of a new objective: "A friendly/innocent NPC stumbles in, and the monster grabs them/starts shooting at them instead, protect the NPC!"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rechan, post: 4646786, member: 54846"] The one problem there are circumstances where there's no way for the monster to flee, and surrender = death anyway. If the monster has no extra means of escape (flight, teleport, invisibility), and it's kinda crowded, well it's likely not going to get out of there. The latter point comes from if the monster is something like a Devil/Demon, Undead, or anything that 1) is unquestionably evil and 2) knows the PCs know this. I don't know many PCs that would let a fiend go free. In that circumstance, better to try and take the punks with you. And if it's an unintelligent undead (Skeleton, zombie), it's likely going to fight to the death anyhow. In addition, [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/249416-d-d-4th-edition-one-trick-ponies-why-dms-fault-about-combat-grind.html"]the post that sparked this whole mess[/URL], the complaint was that the DM has to use DM Fiat to prevent grind, and the OP's point is that a DM shouldn't just be responsible for dealing with grind, either players should, or the system should. If you're okay with addressing Grind by DM Fiat, there are other options than Surrender/Flee. You can: 1) End the fight via Hand Wave, at the cost of some healing surges. "And you battle it for a few more heart-pounding seconds, but it gets its licks in before it goes down. Gimmie a healing surge and we'll call it there." 2) Treat the monster like a minion. The next hit kills it, regardless of HP total. 3) [B]And Then Something Happened[/B]. Something that either causes the fight to end ("The ceiling collapses, blocking you from the monster"), or otherwise changes the face of the fight ("The room is now bathed in fire. Now fight this guy while the fire surrounds you"). This could even be the infusion of a new objective: "A friendly/innocent NPC stumbles in, and the monster grabs them/starts shooting at them instead, protect the NPC!" [/QUOTE]
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Forked: "Math and Grind" or "Why Rechan is Right" (From: "4e One-trick ponies")
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