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Forked Thread: Knowledge skills in combat
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4422694" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>I don't think it is quite as potent as you claim.</p><p></p><p>Heroic level: DC 15 for Name, Type and Keywords</p><p></p><p>This information might be a little helpful, but knowing that a Kobold is a Humanoid is not really that helpful. There are some Names that give more info (like a Kobold Minion is a minion), but that is the exception and not the rule.</p><p></p><p>With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 75% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 95% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 70%. But, this is general information which is not really that tactically helpful.</p><p></p><p>DC 20: Powers</p><p></p><p>With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 50% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 70% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 45%. Knowing the powers helps tactically, but again it does not give serious advantage to the players unless the DM gives every detail of the powers.</p><p></p><p>DC 25: Resistances and Vulnerabilities</p><p></p><p>With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 25% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 45% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 20%.</p><p></p><p>Granted, a player could up his odds with Skill Focus, but that's ok. He only does it for one skill for a feat, not all such skills. And, some magic items might help in some cases.</p><p></p><p>Note: This does not give the players the monster's role, its defense totals, how many action points it has, its speed, its modes of movement, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The thing about the powers is that a DM should give a general idea about the power, but not specific details.</p><p></p><p>For example, the Drider Fanglord uses a Greatsword, has a poisonous bite, can shoot darkfire and can shoot a web. That's it.</p><p></p><p>The PCs do not actually know how potent the poison is, do not know the extra ability of the darkfire, etc. They do not know that the bite is a minor action and the darkfire is a minor action. They will discover this in combat, but it is not the type of information the DM should hand out.</p><p></p><p>They just know basically what to expect in melee and at range.</p><p></p><p>The rule of thumb is to not hand out metagaming information (e.g. is it a standard action or a minor action, does it do 1D6 or 2D6 of damage, does it have other special conditions, etc.).</p><p></p><p>If the DM gives out every detail of the powers, then yes, he might as well get rid of his DM screen. The DM should give general information on the powers so that the players know that the Drider Fanglord can shoot a web at them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you should consider a single die roll for the entire group for determining abilities.</p><p></p><p>If you allow 5 players with +3 to +9 to each roll a D20, then yes, the odds are going to go up that someone in the group has the information.</p><p></p><p>But, if you allow one D20 roll and each PC gets to add their skill bonus to it, then the odds will match what the designers appear to have intended.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Additionally, only allow one D20 roll for each type of monster. That way, the PCs might know about the Drider Fanglord, but not the Drider Shadowspinner standing next to it. For multi-type monster groups, the PCs should often miss at least one of the (DC 20 or above) rolls. Who really cares if they make the DC 15 roll? It gives really basic info.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Finally, give the die roll when the PCs first spot the monster. This will minimize the number of times that the PCs use some type of power to boost their bonus to their skill modifier. Do not allow them to re-roll after boosting a skill modifier, otherwise, that will become SOP.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4422694, member: 2011"] I don't think it is quite as potent as you claim. Heroic level: DC 15 for Name, Type and Keywords This information might be a little helpful, but knowing that a Kobold is a Humanoid is not really that helpful. There are some Names that give more info (like a Kobold Minion is a minion), but that is the exception and not the rule. With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 75% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 95% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 70%. But, this is general information which is not really that tactically helpful. DC 20: Powers With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 50% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 70% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 45%. Knowing the powers helps tactically, but again it does not give serious advantage to the players unless the DM gives every detail of the powers. DC 25: Resistances and Vulnerabilities With +5 for training and +4 for ability score at first level, this is a 25% chance of success. At level 8, it's a 45% chance of success, but some monsters will be Paragon level at that point and drop it to 20%. Granted, a player could up his odds with Skill Focus, but that's ok. He only does it for one skill for a feat, not all such skills. And, some magic items might help in some cases. Note: This does not give the players the monster's role, its defense totals, how many action points it has, its speed, its modes of movement, etc. The thing about the powers is that a DM should give a general idea about the power, but not specific details. For example, the Drider Fanglord uses a Greatsword, has a poisonous bite, can shoot darkfire and can shoot a web. That's it. The PCs do not actually know how potent the poison is, do not know the extra ability of the darkfire, etc. They do not know that the bite is a minor action and the darkfire is a minor action. They will discover this in combat, but it is not the type of information the DM should hand out. They just know basically what to expect in melee and at range. The rule of thumb is to not hand out metagaming information (e.g. is it a standard action or a minor action, does it do 1D6 or 2D6 of damage, does it have other special conditions, etc.). If the DM gives out every detail of the powers, then yes, he might as well get rid of his DM screen. The DM should give general information on the powers so that the players know that the Drider Fanglord can shoot a web at them. I think you should consider a single die roll for the entire group for determining abilities. If you allow 5 players with +3 to +9 to each roll a D20, then yes, the odds are going to go up that someone in the group has the information. But, if you allow one D20 roll and each PC gets to add their skill bonus to it, then the odds will match what the designers appear to have intended. Additionally, only allow one D20 roll for each type of monster. That way, the PCs might know about the Drider Fanglord, but not the Drider Shadowspinner standing next to it. For multi-type monster groups, the PCs should often miss at least one of the (DC 20 or above) rolls. Who really cares if they make the DC 15 roll? It gives really basic info. Finally, give the die roll when the PCs first spot the monster. This will minimize the number of times that the PCs use some type of power to boost their bonus to their skill modifier. Do not allow them to re-roll after boosting a skill modifier, otherwise, that will become SOP. [/QUOTE]
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