Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: [Ryan Dancey's D&D Death Spiral] - D&D doomed to cult status?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Beginning of the End" data-source="post: 4747921" data-attributes="member: 55271"><p>We know that in 1989 the <em>Basic Set</em> sold 1,000,000 copies.</p><p></p><p>In 1991, TSR stopped producing an all-in-one introductory version of the game and replaced that product with a pay-to-preview boxed set. When the <em>Rules Cyclopedia</em> went out of a print a few years later, the only true ruleset for D&D became (for the first time ever) a set of three rulebooks clocking in at 700-900 pages and costing in the ballpark of $100.</p><p></p><p>That remains the case today.</p><p></p><p>So if there is a problem getting new players into the hobby, it certainly might be due to factors beyond WotC's control. Maybe video games have irreparably harmed D&D (although weren't video games incredibly popular during the '80s, too?). Maybe people just don't play games face-to-face any more (although <em>Monopoly</em> and its ilk seem to be doing all right). Maybe the game's popularity was entirely fad driven (although it seems to be a fad with an unusually prolonged drop-off).</p><p></p><p>But I just can't stop looking at the lack of a product like the 1981 or 1983 Basic Sets and saying: "Ya know, the <a href="http://www.thealexandrian.net/archive/archive2009-03d.html#20090319b" target="_blank">complete lack of a gateway product</a> might have something to do with it."</p><p></p><p>And maybe the abandonment of mainstream advertising by TSR (and WotC's failure to re-establish it) also contributes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are a couple of factors here:</p><p></p><p>(1) Everyone tends to associate with people close to their own age (for a myriad number of reasons). This is just as true for gamers as it is for anyone else. I recently had cause to be exposed to a crowd of much younger people and, unsurprisingly, I was suddenly exposed to a number of much younger gamers.</p><p></p><p>(2) You're playing a game that's been OOP for 20 years. That's some pretty heavy self-selection bias for playing with older gamers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's also been no indication that WotC has ever commissioned fresh market data. It's certainly possible that the number has remained steady. It's also more than possible that WotC is doing what lots of companies have done throughout history and continued using an old statistic because there's no new data to replace it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beginning of the End, post: 4747921, member: 55271"] We know that in 1989 the [i]Basic Set[/i] sold 1,000,000 copies. In 1991, TSR stopped producing an all-in-one introductory version of the game and replaced that product with a pay-to-preview boxed set. When the [i]Rules Cyclopedia[/i] went out of a print a few years later, the only true ruleset for D&D became (for the first time ever) a set of three rulebooks clocking in at 700-900 pages and costing in the ballpark of $100. That remains the case today. So if there is a problem getting new players into the hobby, it certainly might be due to factors beyond WotC's control. Maybe video games have irreparably harmed D&D (although weren't video games incredibly popular during the '80s, too?). Maybe people just don't play games face-to-face any more (although [i]Monopoly[/i] and its ilk seem to be doing all right). Maybe the game's popularity was entirely fad driven (although it seems to be a fad with an unusually prolonged drop-off). But I just can't stop looking at the lack of a product like the 1981 or 1983 Basic Sets and saying: "Ya know, the [url=http://www.thealexandrian.net/archive/archive2009-03d.html#20090319b]complete lack of a gateway product[/url] might have something to do with it." And maybe the abandonment of mainstream advertising by TSR (and WotC's failure to re-establish it) also contributes. There are a couple of factors here: (1) Everyone tends to associate with people close to their own age (for a myriad number of reasons). This is just as true for gamers as it is for anyone else. I recently had cause to be exposed to a crowd of much younger people and, unsurprisingly, I was suddenly exposed to a number of much younger gamers. (2) You're playing a game that's been OOP for 20 years. That's some pretty heavy self-selection bias for playing with older gamers. There's also been no indication that WotC has ever commissioned fresh market data. It's certainly possible that the number has remained steady. It's also more than possible that WotC is doing what lots of companies have done throughout history and continued using an old statistic because there's no new data to replace it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: [Ryan Dancey's D&D Death Spiral] - D&D doomed to cult status?
Top