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Forked Thread: [Ryan Dancey's D&D Death Spiral] - D&D doomed to cult status?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 4748240" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>I don't think this is true. Or rather, LotR and The Hobbit are the "gateway" between mainstream culture and the SF/F ghetto. Some years ago I worked in a large independent bookstore; I remember checking sales history on The Hobbit and was amazed at how not only was its sales extremely consistent, month after month, but it spiked considerably during the gift-buying season (Nov and Dec). We're not talking just a few, but close to bestseller...for a book written 70 years ago.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Great post, sorry I had to snip it for the sake of brevity. I think you really hit the nail on the head here. I've been saying for awhile and still maintain that D&D should go back to a Basic/Advanced format yet in such a way that the rules are complementary, so that people can start playing Basic and gradually move into Advanced, or just use bits and pieces of Advanced...or not. The idea being that the rules would be compatible, easily convertible, and modular. Basic would not require miniatures (another ghetto-ifying factor), would not include countless exceptions and modifiers, and would be contained within a single rule book or box set.</p><p></p><p>I am still surprised at how much <em>repulsion</em> exists towards D&D; in many circles it is an insult to say something like "Go back to playing D&D" or "I bet he plays D&D." I'm a high school educator and when my kids found out that I play the responses ran the gamut, from excitement (he's nerdy like us!), to confusion (he doesn't seem like a nerd...), to distressed repulsion (are you kidding me? that's for nerds!). What I was surprised about was A) How much antipathy exists towards it, and to a lesser extent, B) How some folks had no clue what it was about and had a difficult time grasping the basic concept. I enjoyed playing the Vin Diesel/Tim Duncan cards to some of the guys, which confused them even more! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>But there were some non-nerdish kids that were genuinely curious, if a bit leery of being too curious (sort of like mild homophobes being curious-but-leery of Gay Things because they don't want to contract The Gay). I think if WotC was able to manufacture a Basic set that was relatively generic and without the excessive complex geekery, some would at least be willing to try. I tell people all the time, from my wife to some of my students, that I think they would actually like it if they tried. I mean, how many people actually play D&D that don't like it? I've never played with a newbie (usually a wife or girlfriend of a player) who hasn't at least found it mildly interesting; most are more into it than they thought they would be.</p><p></p><p>If and when there is a 5th edition I would hope they would adopt a stronger Basic/Advanced format...as long as the two complement each other and aren't different games (like 1ed and BECMI), but the latter being more of a complexification, or advanced options add-on. This format would also work well with the core/splat format: Your first product, a box-set with three booklets: PHB, MM, DMG would be the core basic rules set, which would be enough to play indefinitely; then you'd have hardcover splat books which are all optional and advanced: e.g. "Advanced Players Handbook", etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 4748240, member: 59082"] I don't think this is true. Or rather, LotR and The Hobbit are the "gateway" between mainstream culture and the SF/F ghetto. Some years ago I worked in a large independent bookstore; I remember checking sales history on The Hobbit and was amazed at how not only was its sales extremely consistent, month after month, but it spiked considerably during the gift-buying season (Nov and Dec). We're not talking just a few, but close to bestseller...for a book written 70 years ago. Great post, sorry I had to snip it for the sake of brevity. I think you really hit the nail on the head here. I've been saying for awhile and still maintain that D&D should go back to a Basic/Advanced format yet in such a way that the rules are complementary, so that people can start playing Basic and gradually move into Advanced, or just use bits and pieces of Advanced...or not. The idea being that the rules would be compatible, easily convertible, and modular. Basic would not require miniatures (another ghetto-ifying factor), would not include countless exceptions and modifiers, and would be contained within a single rule book or box set. I am still surprised at how much [I]repulsion[/I] exists towards D&D; in many circles it is an insult to say something like "Go back to playing D&D" or "I bet he plays D&D." I'm a high school educator and when my kids found out that I play the responses ran the gamut, from excitement (he's nerdy like us!), to confusion (he doesn't seem like a nerd...), to distressed repulsion (are you kidding me? that's for nerds!). What I was surprised about was A) How much antipathy exists towards it, and to a lesser extent, B) How some folks had no clue what it was about and had a difficult time grasping the basic concept. I enjoyed playing the Vin Diesel/Tim Duncan cards to some of the guys, which confused them even more! :p But there were some non-nerdish kids that were genuinely curious, if a bit leery of being too curious (sort of like mild homophobes being curious-but-leery of Gay Things because they don't want to contract The Gay). I think if WotC was able to manufacture a Basic set that was relatively generic and without the excessive complex geekery, some would at least be willing to try. I tell people all the time, from my wife to some of my students, that I think they would actually like it if they tried. I mean, how many people actually play D&D that don't like it? I've never played with a newbie (usually a wife or girlfriend of a player) who hasn't at least found it mildly interesting; most are more into it than they thought they would be. If and when there is a 5th edition I would hope they would adopt a stronger Basic/Advanced format...as long as the two complement each other and aren't different games (like 1ed and BECMI), but the latter being more of a complexification, or advanced options add-on. This format would also work well with the core/splat format: Your first product, a box-set with three booklets: PHB, MM, DMG would be the core basic rules set, which would be enough to play indefinitely; then you'd have hardcover splat books which are all optional and advanced: e.g. "Advanced Players Handbook", etc. [/QUOTE]
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