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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8703790" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Er...okay. Except for the fact that their spells scale up in damage <em>and</em> their slots scale up in damage <em>and</em> their cantrips scale <em>and</em> they can upcast old spells...</p><p></p><p>Yes, they're a hell of a lot LESS quadratic than they were in 3e. That doesn't mean they aren't still quadratic. The Battle Master has a fixed set of maneuvers which only grow linearly in power (and which they will choose the best options from right away, meaning each additional maneuver gained is of diminishing marginal utility.) Spellcasters don't just get <em>more</em> spells, they also get <em>better</em> spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry, just don't agree on any of that. Casters already do excellent damage if that's what they choose to focus on, <em>especially</em> due to the 5MWD problems in 5e. The quadratic is still there. It's just less than it was before, because before it was <em>completely ridiculous</em> such that even 5e's designers, as enamored as they were with 3e ways of doing things, couldn't justify it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It totally does. They're just <em>more slowly</em> quadratic. They gain both <em>more</em> slots (scaling linearly) AND more <em>powerful</em> slots (scaling linearly). If you have two different linear scaling methods that amplify one another, you have quadratic scaling. That's <em>literally</em> what "quadratic" means--that you have two different values, both based off the character's level, that multiply their bonuses together. Having more spell slots, which <em>also</em> have amplified effects, is explicitly that, because you now have more slots which also automatically do more <em>stuff</em>.</p><p></p><p>And it absolutely would be per level. It's just "per level/5" (more or less) rather than "per level" flat. That's still a number which scales based off level. Like, let's rephrase this rule a different way. This makes a level-based (because <em>tiers are based on levels</em>) rule that <em>effectively</em> gives Wizards four pseudo-2nd-level slots, three pseudo-3rd-level slots, and two actual 3rd level slots. At 11th level, it gives them four pseudo-3rd-level slots, six pseudo-4th-level slots, two pseudo-6th-level slots, and one actual 6th-level slot. In other words, this is literally giving spellcasters <em>three times as many</em> effectively-6th-level spells than they could ever cast in a single day, and WAY more powerful hits for their 1st-level spells.</p><p></p><p>And all of this is before factoring in Arcane Recovery! With these rules, Arcane Recovery (or Natural Recovery for Land Druids) allows a Tier 4 Wizard to recover multiple effectively-6h-level spells a day, every day, with just a single short rest.</p><p></p><p>That is objectively an ENORMOUS power increase, one that grows substantially with level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8703790, member: 6790260"] Er...okay. Except for the fact that their spells scale up in damage [I]and[/I] their slots scale up in damage [I]and[/I] their cantrips scale [I]and[/I] they can upcast old spells... Yes, they're a hell of a lot LESS quadratic than they were in 3e. That doesn't mean they aren't still quadratic. The Battle Master has a fixed set of maneuvers which only grow linearly in power (and which they will choose the best options from right away, meaning each additional maneuver gained is of diminishing marginal utility.) Spellcasters don't just get [I]more[/I] spells, they also get [I]better[/I] spells. Sorry, just don't agree on any of that. Casters already do excellent damage if that's what they choose to focus on, [I]especially[/I] due to the 5MWD problems in 5e. The quadratic is still there. It's just less than it was before, because before it was [I]completely ridiculous[/I] such that even 5e's designers, as enamored as they were with 3e ways of doing things, couldn't justify it. It totally does. They're just [I]more slowly[/I] quadratic. They gain both [I]more[/I] slots (scaling linearly) AND more [I]powerful[/I] slots (scaling linearly). If you have two different linear scaling methods that amplify one another, you have quadratic scaling. That's [I]literally[/I] what "quadratic" means--that you have two different values, both based off the character's level, that multiply their bonuses together. Having more spell slots, which [I]also[/I] have amplified effects, is explicitly that, because you now have more slots which also automatically do more [I]stuff[/I]. And it absolutely would be per level. It's just "per level/5" (more or less) rather than "per level" flat. That's still a number which scales based off level. Like, let's rephrase this rule a different way. This makes a level-based (because [I]tiers are based on levels[/I]) rule that [I]effectively[/I] gives Wizards four pseudo-2nd-level slots, three pseudo-3rd-level slots, and two actual 3rd level slots. At 11th level, it gives them four pseudo-3rd-level slots, six pseudo-4th-level slots, two pseudo-6th-level slots, and one actual 6th-level slot. In other words, this is literally giving spellcasters [I]three times as many[/I] effectively-6th-level spells than they could ever cast in a single day, and WAY more powerful hits for their 1st-level spells. And all of this is before factoring in Arcane Recovery! With these rules, Arcane Recovery (or Natural Recovery for Land Druids) allows a Tier 4 Wizard to recover multiple effectively-6h-level spells a day, every day, with just a single short rest. That is objectively an ENORMOUS power increase, one that grows substantially with level. [/QUOTE]
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