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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 5109960" data-attributes="member: 5122"><p>Yes, but why?</p><p></p><p>Okay, that makes sense, but in that case I'd suggest that instead of saying things like, "I almost never do this," say, "I don't do this to push things toward a larger outcome I've predetermined." (I almost left the "larger" out of that sentence, but that wouldn't work. Because folks <em>do</em> fudge to push things toward an outcome, right? Even if that outcome is, for example, a fight that doesn't end prematurely due to luck that's built into the system we play.)</p><p></p><p>That's kind of a non-answer, isn't it? Why don't you want the players to know what's happening behind the curtain? Would it make the game less fun for them?</p><p></p><p>It's too strong for me to say that I disagree, but ... I'm <em>inclined</em> to disagree.</p><p></p><p>Someone upthread used the example of the BBEG rolling either three naturals 1 or three crits to open a combat.</p><p></p><p>It's extremely important to understand that not only is this built into a system with a random mechanic, it's not even particularly <em>rare</em> in a system in which that mechanic is linear. And not only is it built in, and not only is it fairly common, but any DM with experience <em>knows</em> all this.</p><p></p><p>So, basically, a DM is choosing to design things such that it's possible for this event to occur, and such that when the event does occur, the DM will feel obligated to change the rules of the action-resolution he's chosen to use (in both system and encounter design).</p><p></p><p>That doesn't seem odd?</p><p></p><p>True dat. I've tried to fudge one of my players into going on an extended beer run. Didn't work.</p><p></p><p>Cool, let's end on a point of perfect agreement.</p><p></p><p>The game I currently GM, BTW, is Mutants & Masterminds. M&M has a system of codified and encouraged fudging. It's actually in the rules. (One subsection of the rules is literally "GM Fiat.") It's worth pointing out that I love M&M ... and that M&M rules on fudging are completely transparent to the players. Meaning that when I call on something like GM Fiat, the players know it, and are even compensated for it in the Hero Point economy.</p><p></p><p>I encourage folks who are "casual fudgers" (now why does that sound dirty?) to examine, again and more closely, the reason that they think -- if they do -- that fudging should be kept secret from players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 5109960, member: 5122"] Yes, but why? Okay, that makes sense, but in that case I'd suggest that instead of saying things like, "I almost never do this," say, "I don't do this to push things toward a larger outcome I've predetermined." (I almost left the "larger" out of that sentence, but that wouldn't work. Because folks [I]do[/I] fudge to push things toward an outcome, right? Even if that outcome is, for example, a fight that doesn't end prematurely due to luck that's built into the system we play.) That's kind of a non-answer, isn't it? Why don't you want the players to know what's happening behind the curtain? Would it make the game less fun for them? It's too strong for me to say that I disagree, but ... I'm [I]inclined[/I] to disagree. Someone upthread used the example of the BBEG rolling either three naturals 1 or three crits to open a combat. It's extremely important to understand that not only is this built into a system with a random mechanic, it's not even particularly [I]rare[/I] in a system in which that mechanic is linear. And not only is it built in, and not only is it fairly common, but any DM with experience [I]knows[/I] all this. So, basically, a DM is choosing to design things such that it's possible for this event to occur, and such that when the event does occur, the DM will feel obligated to change the rules of the action-resolution he's chosen to use (in both system and encounter design). That doesn't seem odd? True dat. I've tried to fudge one of my players into going on an extended beer run. Didn't work. Cool, let's end on a point of perfect agreement. The game I currently GM, BTW, is Mutants & Masterminds. M&M has a system of codified and encouraged fudging. It's actually in the rules. (One subsection of the rules is literally "GM Fiat.") It's worth pointing out that I love M&M ... and that M&M rules on fudging are completely transparent to the players. Meaning that when I call on something like GM Fiat, the players know it, and are even compensated for it in the Hero Point economy. I encourage folks who are "casual fudgers" (now why does that sound dirty?) to examine, again and more closely, the reason that they think -- if they do -- that fudging should be kept secret from players. [/QUOTE]
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