Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fudging the Numbers in 3ed - Forked from: Why do you keep playing 4e?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jhaelen" data-source="post: 4618149" data-attributes="member: 46713"><p>These questions have been asked time and again. But I think they're missing the point.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't matter if you can fudge "the math" in 3E or not. What does matter is that there are rules that can be used to create monsters without fudging. Why should I fudge anything if there are rules that tell me how to do things without fudging?</p><p></p><p>In 2E I felt comfortable creating lots of stuff. I felt I had a firm grasp of all the rules and their implications for balance.</p><p></p><p>In 3E I had been DMing for a full year before I dared to start creating very minor things. I still don't feel comfortable creating a new monster from scratch. It's also important to note that using the same rules for monsters and pcs was one of the features that sold me on 3E.</p><p></p><p>The cool thing about 3E is this:</p><p>When I tell a fellow DM about one of the fun encounters in my game and he asks me: 'Hey, sounds cool, but how did x do y?' then I can explain every little detail and he can recreate the encounter using only things from official supplements. I can tell him about the spells, feats, class features, monsters, items, etc. I used to create a certain intriguing synergetic effect.</p><p></p><p>In 2E or now in 4E the only thing I can say is 'I made it up' or 'Well, that's a thing that only a monster can do'.</p><p></p><p>This is all fine until you realize how much effort it takes to create interesting situations without fudging anything. And that's the 'revelation' of 4E.</p><p></p><p>I basically had to relearn what I'd always been doing in 2E.</p><p></p><p>One important advantage 4E has over 3E is the transparency of the math and the abundance of guidelines that create a feeling that fudging is _easy_ and you don't have to worry about things getting unbalanced.</p><p></p><p>As a final note: I'm still playing 3E but after reading 4E I feel more comfortable fudging things in 3E. When I notice that doing things by the book wouldn't have any noticable advantage over fudging, I take the shortcut. But there are still lots of things where the system mastery I acquired allows me to min-max hell out of a concept, so there's still a lot of situations where I don't fudge, because I feel it's worthwhile to stay within the rules.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately it is more satisfying for me if I can pull a tricky thing off and surprise my players without fudging - don't ask me why <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jhaelen, post: 4618149, member: 46713"] These questions have been asked time and again. But I think they're missing the point. It doesn't matter if you can fudge "the math" in 3E or not. What does matter is that there are rules that can be used to create monsters without fudging. Why should I fudge anything if there are rules that tell me how to do things without fudging? In 2E I felt comfortable creating lots of stuff. I felt I had a firm grasp of all the rules and their implications for balance. In 3E I had been DMing for a full year before I dared to start creating very minor things. I still don't feel comfortable creating a new monster from scratch. It's also important to note that using the same rules for monsters and pcs was one of the features that sold me on 3E. The cool thing about 3E is this: When I tell a fellow DM about one of the fun encounters in my game and he asks me: 'Hey, sounds cool, but how did x do y?' then I can explain every little detail and he can recreate the encounter using only things from official supplements. I can tell him about the spells, feats, class features, monsters, items, etc. I used to create a certain intriguing synergetic effect. In 2E or now in 4E the only thing I can say is 'I made it up' or 'Well, that's a thing that only a monster can do'. This is all fine until you realize how much effort it takes to create interesting situations without fudging anything. And that's the 'revelation' of 4E. I basically had to relearn what I'd always been doing in 2E. One important advantage 4E has over 3E is the transparency of the math and the abundance of guidelines that create a feeling that fudging is _easy_ and you don't have to worry about things getting unbalanced. As a final note: I'm still playing 3E but after reading 4E I feel more comfortable fudging things in 3E. When I notice that doing things by the book wouldn't have any noticable advantage over fudging, I take the shortcut. But there are still lots of things where the system mastery I acquired allows me to min-max hell out of a concept, so there's still a lot of situations where I don't fudge, because I feel it's worthwhile to stay within the rules. Ultimately it is more satisfying for me if I can pull a tricky thing off and surprise my players without fudging - don't ask me why :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fudging the Numbers in 3ed - Forked from: Why do you keep playing 4e?
Top