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<blockquote data-quote="BSF" data-source="post: 2606069" data-attributes="member: 13098"><p><strong>Death and all that stuff.</strong></p><p></p><p>I try to make death a real fear in the game. There are stories to gtell and I try to integrate different aspect of all your characters because it is important to me that you have an impact on the world. How can you feel like a hero if it doesn't seem like your choices and actions have any value? But back on track here - it does occasionally create inconveniences for me when a PC dies. Sometimes I have to set aside stuff I had been working on. But that's OK really. I want you to have an impact and that impact can also be felt with the sudden absence of a PC. </p><p></p><p>So the possibility of PC death is important to me. Besides, I don't want you guys thinking your PCs are invulnerable. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> That being said, it is also important to me that dying be an inconvenience. While computer games are fun, I don't want PC death to be a video game experience around the table. So dying has to hurt in some way.</p><p></p><p>Previous editions used Con drain to limit PC death. If you died and were brought back, you lost a point of Con. I always hated that. At some point, it hardly seems worth it to bring the PC back. </p><p></p><p>There is also the level loss mechanic to 'punish' character death. This one isn't as bad. Sure you temporarily lose power, but you do get it back. Still, level loss has always left me with a bit of a bad taste as well. I just haven't had any alternatives to consider. </p><p></p><p>Recently a discussion came up in the rules forum regarding alternatives to level loss for death. A few links were also posted to Sean K Reaynolds' and Andy Collins' sites. I found these interesting and they gave me something to think about.</p><p></p><p>Within the confines of my campaign, we have a lot of alterations to the rules. Most notably with Experience. With 3.5, the designers codified a way to reduce the long term impact of death. Lower level PCs in a mixed group get more experience for defeating challenges. Over time, this will catch the lower level PC up with the group. This is a decent idea, but it is negated by my choice of awarding exp.</p><p></p><p>I wanted to use a codified way of awarding exp for non-combat events. By doing that, we reduce the urge to move on to combat all the time. It is quite possible to gain exp by peacefully interacting with NPCs. I like the system, but it does negate the scaling exp mechanics presented with the standard CR system. So we need to recognize that this is an inherent weakness of the system. This does exaggerate the punishment of PC death.</p><p></p><p>That brings me to the next issue I have. Death shouldn't always be a punishment. Sometimes death can be a noble sacrifice. I have enough world specific reasons in place to avoid any of you squandering life. First of all, casting the spells to bring you back is expensive. Secondly, you need to find somebody that is willing to do it. Especially in a group that is multi-fath (or lack thereof), it is much more difficult. Priests don't cast raising magic for anybody that has the cash. You also need to prove that they have an interest in bringing you back. (If none of you have thought about it, this type of 'favor' is another form of 'treasure'. Helping a temple or something out of a bind will make them more inclined to help you come back from the land of the dead. Again, if none of you have thought about it, the clergy at the Ternell Complex hold many of you in high esteem for what you did bringing the relic back.) There are also ways to die in which you cannot be brought back. Finally, your soul might not be free to return if you die. There are a lot of ways in which calculated risks might still backfire. Death should hurt, but we are talking about a world of miracles, you can come back from the dead. </p><p></p><p>If I reduce the long term impact of PC death, it provides a little more incentive for you to think creatively with your roleplaying. Experience is hard earned and I don't much like taking it away. So, how about an alternative to the impact of character death?</p><p></p><p>D&D has a mechanic for handling level drain. It is called 'Negative Levels'. If you haven't read it in the books, or in the SRD, I will post it here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The premise I am proposing uses this mechanic. Though there are a couple of differences.</p><p></p><p>If you die, you are afflicted with a <strong>Death Negative Level</strong> when you are returned to life. This negative level remains with you until it is earned back. You earn it back as you advance in levels. </p><p></p><p>Let's suppose that a 6th level character, Fred, dies and is brought back.</p><p></p><p>Fred is now a 6th level character with 1 negative level. He otherwise functions as a 6th level character. He might still have iterative attacks, but he takes penalties to hit. He still has his skills, but he has a penalty to the checks. He is the same, but has the pain of the shadow of death hindering him. </p><p></p><p>So how does he get it back? Well, that requires some tweaks to existing spells. True Resurrection does not leave you with a <strong>Death Negative Level</strong>. So that doesn't change. </p><p></p><p>Resurrection will leave you with a negative level until the next time you train and gain a level. At that point you gain your level and you remove the <strong>Death Negative Level</strong>. </p><p></p><p>If Fred were returned to life via a Resurrection spell, he would remove the negative level at the same time he gained level 7.</p><p></p><p>Raise Dead is a lesser spell and you need to gain two levels to completely remove a <strong>Death Negative Level</strong>.</p><p></p><p>If Fred were returned via a Raise Dead, he would completely remove the negative level when he reached 8th level. </p><p></p><p>This is just a general idea so I am looking for your feedback. Ultimately it is your PC that will be affected by this. But it does make the bookkeeping a bit easier for all of us. It could be a pain to keep track of a negative level for a long time. But I consider that a possible motivator for you guys to train when you have the experience. </p><p></p><p>Oh, in the context of the current campain, I would probably make it an additional two weeks of training on top of your normal month if you are buying off a negative level. So training time would also be lengthened a bit. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, what does everyone else think? Pros/cons and all that stuff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BSF, post: 2606069, member: 13098"] [b]Death and all that stuff.[/b] I try to make death a real fear in the game. There are stories to gtell and I try to integrate different aspect of all your characters because it is important to me that you have an impact on the world. How can you feel like a hero if it doesn't seem like your choices and actions have any value? But back on track here - it does occasionally create inconveniences for me when a PC dies. Sometimes I have to set aside stuff I had been working on. But that's OK really. I want you to have an impact and that impact can also be felt with the sudden absence of a PC. So the possibility of PC death is important to me. Besides, I don't want you guys thinking your PCs are invulnerable. ;) That being said, it is also important to me that dying be an inconvenience. While computer games are fun, I don't want PC death to be a video game experience around the table. So dying has to hurt in some way. Previous editions used Con drain to limit PC death. If you died and were brought back, you lost a point of Con. I always hated that. At some point, it hardly seems worth it to bring the PC back. There is also the level loss mechanic to 'punish' character death. This one isn't as bad. Sure you temporarily lose power, but you do get it back. Still, level loss has always left me with a bit of a bad taste as well. I just haven't had any alternatives to consider. Recently a discussion came up in the rules forum regarding alternatives to level loss for death. A few links were also posted to Sean K Reaynolds' and Andy Collins' sites. I found these interesting and they gave me something to think about. Within the confines of my campaign, we have a lot of alterations to the rules. Most notably with Experience. With 3.5, the designers codified a way to reduce the long term impact of death. Lower level PCs in a mixed group get more experience for defeating challenges. Over time, this will catch the lower level PC up with the group. This is a decent idea, but it is negated by my choice of awarding exp. I wanted to use a codified way of awarding exp for non-combat events. By doing that, we reduce the urge to move on to combat all the time. It is quite possible to gain exp by peacefully interacting with NPCs. I like the system, but it does negate the scaling exp mechanics presented with the standard CR system. So we need to recognize that this is an inherent weakness of the system. This does exaggerate the punishment of PC death. That brings me to the next issue I have. Death shouldn't always be a punishment. Sometimes death can be a noble sacrifice. I have enough world specific reasons in place to avoid any of you squandering life. First of all, casting the spells to bring you back is expensive. Secondly, you need to find somebody that is willing to do it. Especially in a group that is multi-fath (or lack thereof), it is much more difficult. Priests don't cast raising magic for anybody that has the cash. You also need to prove that they have an interest in bringing you back. (If none of you have thought about it, this type of 'favor' is another form of 'treasure'. Helping a temple or something out of a bind will make them more inclined to help you come back from the land of the dead. Again, if none of you have thought about it, the clergy at the Ternell Complex hold many of you in high esteem for what you did bringing the relic back.) There are also ways to die in which you cannot be brought back. Finally, your soul might not be free to return if you die. There are a lot of ways in which calculated risks might still backfire. Death should hurt, but we are talking about a world of miracles, you can come back from the dead. If I reduce the long term impact of PC death, it provides a little more incentive for you to think creatively with your roleplaying. Experience is hard earned and I don't much like taking it away. So, how about an alternative to the impact of character death? D&D has a mechanic for handling level drain. It is called 'Negative Levels'. If you haven't read it in the books, or in the SRD, I will post it here. The premise I am proposing uses this mechanic. Though there are a couple of differences. If you die, you are afflicted with a [b]Death Negative Level[/b] when you are returned to life. This negative level remains with you until it is earned back. You earn it back as you advance in levels. Let's suppose that a 6th level character, Fred, dies and is brought back. Fred is now a 6th level character with 1 negative level. He otherwise functions as a 6th level character. He might still have iterative attacks, but he takes penalties to hit. He still has his skills, but he has a penalty to the checks. He is the same, but has the pain of the shadow of death hindering him. So how does he get it back? Well, that requires some tweaks to existing spells. True Resurrection does not leave you with a [b]Death Negative Level[/b]. So that doesn't change. Resurrection will leave you with a negative level until the next time you train and gain a level. At that point you gain your level and you remove the [b]Death Negative Level[/b]. If Fred were returned to life via a Resurrection spell, he would remove the negative level at the same time he gained level 7. Raise Dead is a lesser spell and you need to gain two levels to completely remove a [b]Death Negative Level[/b]. If Fred were returned via a Raise Dead, he would completely remove the negative level when he reached 8th level. This is just a general idea so I am looking for your feedback. Ultimately it is your PC that will be affected by this. But it does make the bookkeeping a bit easier for all of us. It could be a pain to keep track of a negative level for a long time. But I consider that a possible motivator for you guys to train when you have the experience. Oh, in the context of the current campain, I would probably make it an additional two weeks of training on top of your normal month if you are buying off a negative level. So training time would also be lengthened a bit. Anyway, what does everyone else think? Pros/cons and all that stuff. [/QUOTE]
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