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Game Mechanics And Player Agency
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7738485" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p>My "red line" is only when/for a mechanic that gives another Player control of a fellow Player's character. All Players at the table understand that each other is there to play their character. All Players also understand that the GM is *not* "another Player"...and that the GM is given extremely powerful leeway on how his/her game is run.</p><p></p><p>So, when an NPC wizard uses a spell that, in the OP's parlance, "removes that players agency"...that should be perfectly fine because every single player at the table knows that this can happen. They know that if something "in the game world" does something to control their PC, that the GM is there to take over and decide what happens. The players SHOULD trust their GM to run the character "fairly" (as dictated by his/her GM knowledge of what is <em>actually </em>going on).</p><p></p><p>The only time I've had upset players is when one of two things happens: </p><p></p><p>One, it's one Players PC "taking control" of another Players PC via magic/ability/whatever. This never ends well. Ever. It's basically "bullying other players at the table" so to speak. (NOTE: Long term friends or players in a group can usually overcome this because, well, they're all friends; anybody who specifically tries and piss of their friends quickly finds that they will have none...)</p><p></p><p>Two, the Player is a self-entitled little whiny brat who doesn't think the rules of the spell/ability/whatever apply to <em>their</em> PC because <em>their</em> PC is super-extra-doubly-special. This player is under the false impression that they get to decide how a GM runs the game if they don't like it.</p><p></p><p>IMNSHO, the players at the table should know the difference between the GM's role in the game and the Players role in the game. The GM can do, technically, anything they want. The players can not. This difference, however, is moot most of the time because most roleplayers are there to have fun and not piss off their friends (or even total strangers). Everyone at the table (GM and Players) should be there for the purpose of having a good time and collectively playing make believe. But...there are always those players who fall into my #2 reason above. Still, as I said, Players should fully understand and accept that some things in the game that happen to their PC will be out of their hands. The Players have to trust the the GM will "play fair"...and yes, even if this means that their PC poisons everyone that night including themselves, causing a TPK.</p><p></p><p>I have a feeling I'm going to be an "outlier"...again...of what the majority of Players and GM's think about this whole thing. *shrug* It's ok. I'm use to it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7738485, member: 45197"] Hiya! My "red line" is only when/for a mechanic that gives another Player control of a fellow Player's character. All Players at the table understand that each other is there to play their character. All Players also understand that the GM is *not* "another Player"...and that the GM is given extremely powerful leeway on how his/her game is run. So, when an NPC wizard uses a spell that, in the OP's parlance, "removes that players agency"...that should be perfectly fine because every single player at the table knows that this can happen. They know that if something "in the game world" does something to control their PC, that the GM is there to take over and decide what happens. The players SHOULD trust their GM to run the character "fairly" (as dictated by his/her GM knowledge of what is [I]actually [/I]going on). The only time I've had upset players is when one of two things happens: One, it's one Players PC "taking control" of another Players PC via magic/ability/whatever. This never ends well. Ever. It's basically "bullying other players at the table" so to speak. (NOTE: Long term friends or players in a group can usually overcome this because, well, they're all friends; anybody who specifically tries and piss of their friends quickly finds that they will have none...) Two, the Player is a self-entitled little whiny brat who doesn't think the rules of the spell/ability/whatever apply to [I]their[/I] PC because [I]their[/I] PC is super-extra-doubly-special. This player is under the false impression that they get to decide how a GM runs the game if they don't like it. IMNSHO, the players at the table should know the difference between the GM's role in the game and the Players role in the game. The GM can do, technically, anything they want. The players can not. This difference, however, is moot most of the time because most roleplayers are there to have fun and not piss off their friends (or even total strangers). Everyone at the table (GM and Players) should be there for the purpose of having a good time and collectively playing make believe. But...there are always those players who fall into my #2 reason above. Still, as I said, Players should fully understand and accept that some things in the game that happen to their PC will be out of their hands. The Players have to trust the the GM will "play fair"...and yes, even if this means that their PC poisons everyone that night including themselves, causing a TPK. I have a feeling I'm going to be an "outlier"...again...of what the majority of Players and GM's think about this whole thing. *shrug* It's ok. I'm use to it. :) ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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