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<blockquote data-quote="Skepticultist" data-source="post: 7739054" data-attributes="member: 6898719"><p>I have to agree with Ilbranteloth that this thread seems to be about <em>character agency</em> and not <em>player agency</em>.</p><p></p><p>As a general rule I avoid using villains and monsters that rely on <em>mind control</em> abilities, as I find the outcome of using such effects is generally boring and uninteresting at the table. I'm fine with using very short-term effects, such as <em>command</em> spell used to force a player to "Halt!" and lose an action, or even a villain using a <em>mass charm</em> to escape the party, but long-term dominations and charms mostly result in me controlling the character, and I consider that a poor outcome. There's very little I find less interesting that forcing a player to sit out a combat while I play their character against the rest of the party, and my experience is that most players either don't enjoy being forced to attack their fellow players or enjoy it <em>way too much</em>.</p><p></p><p>Occasionally I will find myself running a game with a player who is an <em>exceptionally</em> good role-player with a high commitment to the game and campaign, and when that happens I have used both long-term domination magic (like <em>geas</em>) and outright replacement of the character (such as with a <em>doppleganger</em>), but I leave control of the character with the player. I simply discuss the idea with player before it comes up in game, and if I get a buy-in from them, then we move ahead. At this point the player is essentially a co-DM, a conspirator helping me pull a long con on the rest of the players. </p><p></p><p>When it comes to <em>nonmagical</em> forms of influence, I generally eschew using any kind of social skills except in very limited circumstances. I mostly run HERO System and the Social Skills in that game are largely intended for use against generic NPCs. I allow players to use skills like Trader, Oratory, Streetwise, and High Society when they do things like sell goods, try to convince crowds of people, or gather information/rumors.</p><p></p><p>I don't allow NPCs to use Social Skills to influence PC actions, or the inverse. A villain can't roll Persuade and convince the PCs to leave him alone, and likewise the PCs can't roll Persuade to convince a villain to surrender without a fight. That's what role-playing is for. It does mean that a player can't really play a character who is much more charismatic and persuasive than they are themselves, but I'm old school and okay with that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Skepticultist, post: 7739054, member: 6898719"] I have to agree with Ilbranteloth that this thread seems to be about [I]character agency[/I] and not [I]player agency[/I]. As a general rule I avoid using villains and monsters that rely on [I]mind control[/I] abilities, as I find the outcome of using such effects is generally boring and uninteresting at the table. I'm fine with using very short-term effects, such as [I]command[/I] spell used to force a player to "Halt!" and lose an action, or even a villain using a [I]mass charm[/I] to escape the party, but long-term dominations and charms mostly result in me controlling the character, and I consider that a poor outcome. There's very little I find less interesting that forcing a player to sit out a combat while I play their character against the rest of the party, and my experience is that most players either don't enjoy being forced to attack their fellow players or enjoy it [I]way too much[/I]. Occasionally I will find myself running a game with a player who is an [I]exceptionally[/I] good role-player with a high commitment to the game and campaign, and when that happens I have used both long-term domination magic (like [I]geas[/I]) and outright replacement of the character (such as with a [I]doppleganger[/I]), but I leave control of the character with the player. I simply discuss the idea with player before it comes up in game, and if I get a buy-in from them, then we move ahead. At this point the player is essentially a co-DM, a conspirator helping me pull a long con on the rest of the players. When it comes to [I]nonmagical[/I] forms of influence, I generally eschew using any kind of social skills except in very limited circumstances. I mostly run HERO System and the Social Skills in that game are largely intended for use against generic NPCs. I allow players to use skills like Trader, Oratory, Streetwise, and High Society when they do things like sell goods, try to convince crowds of people, or gather information/rumors. I don't allow NPCs to use Social Skills to influence PC actions, or the inverse. A villain can't roll Persuade and convince the PCs to leave him alone, and likewise the PCs can't roll Persuade to convince a villain to surrender without a fight. That's what role-playing is for. It does mean that a player can't really play a character who is much more charismatic and persuasive than they are themselves, but I'm old school and okay with that. [/QUOTE]
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