Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Mechanics And Player Agency
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7742625" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p>The arguments come because somewhere in that middle many of us also see a point along the spectrum that we don't want crossed. Problem is, we don't all see that point as being in the same place.</p><p></p><p>There's three different things here that should, I posit, be resolved differently. I've taken the liberty of inserting numbers, for clarity.</p><p></p><p>1. There's many kinds of deception and thus many ways to resolve them. If it's an illusion spell or effect then resolve it using whatever save-vs.-spells the game system allows you. If it's some thiefly sleight of hand then resolve it using whatever thieving mechanics the system has. But if it's a spoken deception e.g. a lie or misdirection then see point 3.</p><p></p><p>2. Most if not all systems have mechanics for this hiding-sneaking-perception sort of thing, and though some are better than others it's usually not that hard to figure out; and sometimes the game will say you don't see the ninjas.</p><p></p><p>3. Unless magic is involved the game should never be allowed to enforce this, and any game whose rules say otherwise needs to have those rules summarily houseruled into nonexistence. Sure, if out-of-character a player asks the DM "so, just how persuasive is this guy being?" a DM is free to say "yeah, he's pretty comvincing"; but that only informs the player without force and the player can still have her PC tell the King to get lost should doing so be consistent with that PC's usual character. But otherwise, actual spoken-word roleplaying in person across the table risks being reduced to a numerical dice exercise, which makes me wonder what's the point.</p><p></p><p>=====</p><p></p><p>Also to point out: there's nothing at all wrong with a DM suggesting what a PC thinks or feels as part of setting an atmosphere or framing a scene e.g. "As you enter the unholy temple the more goodly among you - such as Aloysius, Bjarnni and Falstaff - feel a definite sense of unease and threat, and the hairs rise on the back of your necks; and Chaundra: as a Cleric to Light you immediately realize this place has retained its evil consecrations."</p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7742625, member: 29398"] Agreed. The arguments come because somewhere in that middle many of us also see a point along the spectrum that we don't want crossed. Problem is, we don't all see that point as being in the same place. There's three different things here that should, I posit, be resolved differently. I've taken the liberty of inserting numbers, for clarity. 1. There's many kinds of deception and thus many ways to resolve them. If it's an illusion spell or effect then resolve it using whatever save-vs.-spells the game system allows you. If it's some thiefly sleight of hand then resolve it using whatever thieving mechanics the system has. But if it's a spoken deception e.g. a lie or misdirection then see point 3. 2. Most if not all systems have mechanics for this hiding-sneaking-perception sort of thing, and though some are better than others it's usually not that hard to figure out; and sometimes the game will say you don't see the ninjas. 3. Unless magic is involved the game should never be allowed to enforce this, and any game whose rules say otherwise needs to have those rules summarily houseruled into nonexistence. Sure, if out-of-character a player asks the DM "so, just how persuasive is this guy being?" a DM is free to say "yeah, he's pretty comvincing"; but that only informs the player without force and the player can still have her PC tell the King to get lost should doing so be consistent with that PC's usual character. But otherwise, actual spoken-word roleplaying in person across the table risks being reduced to a numerical dice exercise, which makes me wonder what's the point. ===== Also to point out: there's nothing at all wrong with a DM suggesting what a PC thinks or feels as part of setting an atmosphere or framing a scene e.g. "As you enter the unholy temple the more goodly among you - such as Aloysius, Bjarnni and Falstaff - feel a definite sense of unease and threat, and the hairs rise on the back of your necks; and Chaundra: as a Cleric to Light you immediately realize this place has retained its evil consecrations." Lanefan [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Mechanics And Player Agency
Top