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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7742710" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Obviously, it's not just the word but the grid they define, and the moral/ethical gymnastics D&D has used with them.</p><p></p><p> Yeah, yeah, imply anyone noting the complexity is a moron. Classy. </p><p>Really, though when you're 8, you're blithely able to accept and internalize questionable concepts, and for the rest of your life it seems simple & crystal clear & obvious truth. I suppose you're lucky it was D&D alignment and not some freaky religious dogma or divisive political agenda or something...</p><p></p><p> Yep, you said 'now' and contrasted that with past editions, that implies both first & only, when neither is true. If you want to be accurate, you could note that 5e hasn't gone back to the degree of mechanical entanglement with alignment of the classic game, even though it's returned to the same 9-alignment system.</p><p></p><p> Unfortunately your statement went beyond the point you were trying to make.</p><p></p><p> Depends on the character, he might convert neatly to LN or CN or TN, or muddily to neutral, or he might be impractical to model in the 9-alignment system. Really, though, it might well be the least of the issues involved in such a conversion... </p><p></p><p> Sure, and one of the approaches it enables is for the DM to strip away what folks are calling 'player agency,' by narrating a result of an NPC's CHA (Persuasion) check. I don't think it's a great way to narrate a result. My preference, as well. I don't think DMs should often roll such checks for NPCs in the first place, but should focus on resolving player actions - so not 'The Duke nails a Persuasion check on you,' but rather calling for a check from the PC whose player asks if the Duke is dealing honestly or if it seems like a reasonable request, or whatever it is the player ends up asking or declaring as an action... ). </p><p></p><p>But the DM is Empowered to lay track if he wants to. </p><p></p><p> Nod, and the players can respond to it in unexpected/inappropriate-seeming ways, because the DM may not be nearly as persuasive as he thinks he's being, to certain of the players. </p><p></p><p>In 5e, specifically, the DM is Empowered to support or undercut player agency as he sees fit. A conscientious DM might always do the former, a bad one the latter, but a really good one, IMHO, will consistently present the appearance of the former, while judiciously doing the latter when it's best for the campaign & the player experience.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7742710, member: 996"] Obviously, it's not just the word but the grid they define, and the moral/ethical gymnastics D&D has used with them. Yeah, yeah, imply anyone noting the complexity is a moron. Classy. Really, though when you're 8, you're blithely able to accept and internalize questionable concepts, and for the rest of your life it seems simple & crystal clear & obvious truth. I suppose you're lucky it was D&D alignment and not some freaky religious dogma or divisive political agenda or something... Yep, you said 'now' and contrasted that with past editions, that implies both first & only, when neither is true. If you want to be accurate, you could note that 5e hasn't gone back to the degree of mechanical entanglement with alignment of the classic game, even though it's returned to the same 9-alignment system. Unfortunately your statement went beyond the point you were trying to make. Depends on the character, he might convert neatly to LN or CN or TN, or muddily to neutral, or he might be impractical to model in the 9-alignment system. Really, though, it might well be the least of the issues involved in such a conversion... Sure, and one of the approaches it enables is for the DM to strip away what folks are calling 'player agency,' by narrating a result of an NPC's CHA (Persuasion) check. I don't think it's a great way to narrate a result. My preference, as well. I don't think DMs should often roll such checks for NPCs in the first place, but should focus on resolving player actions - so not 'The Duke nails a Persuasion check on you,' but rather calling for a check from the PC whose player asks if the Duke is dealing honestly or if it seems like a reasonable request, or whatever it is the player ends up asking or declaring as an action... ). But the DM is Empowered to lay track if he wants to. Nod, and the players can respond to it in unexpected/inappropriate-seeming ways, because the DM may not be nearly as persuasive as he thinks he's being, to certain of the players. In 5e, specifically, the DM is Empowered to support or undercut player agency as he sees fit. A conscientious DM might always do the former, a bad one the latter, but a really good one, IMHO, will consistently present the appearance of the former, while judiciously doing the latter when it's best for the campaign & the player experience. [/QUOTE]
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