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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7742717" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Likely because while earlier versions of D&D (i.e. the game most familiar to most people) had some vague and easily-ignored attempts at social rules (e.g. morale), 3e was the first time they were both hard-coded and pushed to the fore. Thus, 3e's social rules by default became both the benchmark then and the go-to example ever since.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps, but in this particular case (social negotiation) there's no legitimate reason to want them either. Short-cutting or skipping actual spoken-word roleplay; jumping to the end of the scene rather than talking through a stalemate; a desire to force PCs (or NPCs, for all that) to be "persuaded" where their free will might go otherwise: none of these are legitimate reasons for social mechanics in any way, and any who say otherwise are also strongly implying the value they place on the "RP" part of RPG: little to none. </p><p></p><p>Which puts you greatly in the minority, I think.</p><p></p><p>This point recently came up in another thread - I forget which one - in that if the DM offers a hook (a common enough occurrence) the players will often take it up out of sheer courtesy to the DM, in recognition of the work she's put in to preparing whatever it is she's trying to hook you into. Reversing this, a DM will often more or less tailor her hooks to suit the known interests of the players - e.g. if she knows she's got a couple of players interested in maritime adventuring she's more likely to set hooks toward maritime adventures than if she knows her players are interested in straight dungeon-crawling or courtly intrigue.</p><p></p><p>And if she doesn't know her players' interests - or is aware those interests are subject to change on a more or less frequent basis - she drops a series of different hooks leading to different adventures and sees what comes of it.</p><p></p><p>This is one area where I might not do well in a story-now type of game: what interests me now and thus goes on my sheet as goals-beliefs-whatever might bore me to tears after a few months...I don't want to be bound to those interests - or even that character - for the duration of the campaign. (and if the duration of the campaign itself is only a few months why did I bother playing in it in the first place) I'd rather play out the story of the party as said story - and party - changes and morphs and develops over the long term.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"the story of the party is and always must be bigger than the sum of the stories of the individual characters"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7742717, member: 29398"] Likely because while earlier versions of D&D (i.e. the game most familiar to most people) had some vague and easily-ignored attempts at social rules (e.g. morale), 3e was the first time they were both hard-coded and pushed to the fore. Thus, 3e's social rules by default became both the benchmark then and the go-to example ever since. Perhaps, but in this particular case (social negotiation) there's no legitimate reason to want them either. Short-cutting or skipping actual spoken-word roleplay; jumping to the end of the scene rather than talking through a stalemate; a desire to force PCs (or NPCs, for all that) to be "persuaded" where their free will might go otherwise: none of these are legitimate reasons for social mechanics in any way, and any who say otherwise are also strongly implying the value they place on the "RP" part of RPG: little to none. Which puts you greatly in the minority, I think. This point recently came up in another thread - I forget which one - in that if the DM offers a hook (a common enough occurrence) the players will often take it up out of sheer courtesy to the DM, in recognition of the work she's put in to preparing whatever it is she's trying to hook you into. Reversing this, a DM will often more or less tailor her hooks to suit the known interests of the players - e.g. if she knows she's got a couple of players interested in maritime adventuring she's more likely to set hooks toward maritime adventures than if she knows her players are interested in straight dungeon-crawling or courtly intrigue. And if she doesn't know her players' interests - or is aware those interests are subject to change on a more or less frequent basis - she drops a series of different hooks leading to different adventures and sees what comes of it. This is one area where I might not do well in a story-now type of game: what interests me now and thus goes on my sheet as goals-beliefs-whatever might bore me to tears after a few months...I don't want to be bound to those interests - or even that character - for the duration of the campaign. (and if the duration of the campaign itself is only a few months why did I bother playing in it in the first place) I'd rather play out the story of the party as said story - and party - changes and morphs and develops over the long term. Lan-"the story of the party is and always must be bigger than the sum of the stories of the individual characters"-efan [/QUOTE]
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