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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7742767" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Like compelling an aspect by giving the player a Fate point in, well, Fate. Sure. </p><p></p><p>Which is kinda a pain in 5e, which puts plenty on the DMs plate as it is.</p><p></p><p> Just have better rules. It's not that there shouldn't as Lanefan suggest, not be rules (substitute the social abilities of the players), or not even be scenes were an NPC's social traits might be relevant in a resolution also involving the traits of a PC. It's just that the rules need to be workable. Fate, for the above instance, has workable rules for the GM getting a PC to do something that's in-character for the PC, but clearly a bad idea from the player's PoV - compelling aspects. 5e does not. It has a Persuade proficiency that's, I think, clearly meant to used to resolve actions where the player has the PC do something persuasive, but could, with the 'what's good for the PC goose is good for the NPC gander' philosophy of DMing, be applied in reverse. </p><p></p><p> I think, in WotC era D&D in general, you could frame the negotiation around the reward or resources the PCs would receive if they accept the mission. It might be a skill challenge in 4e or a group check in 4e or 5e, or a gimme for the diplomancer 'face' in 3.5, but it could side-step the issue. </p><p></p><p></p><p> I think Bluff v Sense Motive/Insight tends to get used more like perception. Take it behind the screen in 5e and you're fine. "Do I think he could be lying?'" ::dice rattle behind the screen:: "He seems sincere to you."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7742767, member: 996"] Like compelling an aspect by giving the player a Fate point in, well, Fate. Sure. Which is kinda a pain in 5e, which puts plenty on the DMs plate as it is. Just have better rules. It's not that there shouldn't as Lanefan suggest, not be rules (substitute the social abilities of the players), or not even be scenes were an NPC's social traits might be relevant in a resolution also involving the traits of a PC. It's just that the rules need to be workable. Fate, for the above instance, has workable rules for the GM getting a PC to do something that's in-character for the PC, but clearly a bad idea from the player's PoV - compelling aspects. 5e does not. It has a Persuade proficiency that's, I think, clearly meant to used to resolve actions where the player has the PC do something persuasive, but could, with the 'what's good for the PC goose is good for the NPC gander' philosophy of DMing, be applied in reverse. I think, in WotC era D&D in general, you could frame the negotiation around the reward or resources the PCs would receive if they accept the mission. It might be a skill challenge in 4e or a group check in 4e or 5e, or a gimme for the diplomancer 'face' in 3.5, but it could side-step the issue. I think Bluff v Sense Motive/Insight tends to get used more like perception. Take it behind the screen in 5e and you're fine. "Do I think he could be lying?'" ::dice rattle behind the screen:: "He seems sincere to you." [/QUOTE]
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