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Gaming W/Jemal: Planar Quest! (Closed)
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<blockquote data-quote="Binder Fred" data-source="post: 6028260" data-attributes="member: 63746"><p>True. Would you be willing to slightly bend the letter of the rules in the spirit of logic then? After all, Knockback basically gives you a Bull Rush because you hit hard (specifically here: "like a Large character"). If I do, strictly speaking, "hit like a Large character", what does my hat size have to do with it? </p><p></p><p>Frankly, Bull Rush is not that great a manoeuver to begin with (I'm actually pushing characters out of reach of my own attacks, a big factor when you're playing a Flurry of Blows monk). I expect the biggest *numerical* advantage I'll get from it is from extra AoO when I have Reach (through Expansion) -- and in those cases my character *will* be Large or Larger anyway. I want Knockback at medium size because it's cool (I am NOT trying to build one of those ridiculous Flaming Ball of Death combos here) and I'm already paying a two feat "feat tax" to get it as it is (I would not be taking Power Attack or Improved Bull Rush without Knockback at the end). I *might* take Shock Trooper to try to gain *some* numerical advantage out of the wild Feat expense, though (because, of course, you need a Feat to do something that the basic Bull Rush maneuver should allow you to do in the first place if it was any good at all: Bull Rush in a 90 degree "fan" behind the target and gain an actual advantage when you actually manage to push people into other stuff... <sigh>). </p><p></p><p>Sorry, guess I'm getting a little frustrated with the arbitrarely rail-roady nature of the Feat system (and the clunkiness of any combat manoeuver that diverges from the holly I-Hit-it-with-my-Sword)... The above still makes sense to my mind though... Thinking about it, and with your permission, I'd personnaly nerf the Shock Trooper Feat (Complete Warrior) a little: have the Trip attack only apply to the Bull-Rushed character (with maybe a -X tohit or to AC for the bumped-in character?) and it's a *simple trip attempt*, not an Improved Trip attempt (no following attack on a successful trip so locks the door on the Flaming Ball silliness). I think the Trip attempt should apply to impacts with anything one size category smaller than the target or bigger though (chairs, walls, the halfling on all fours behind your knees <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />), not just another character... Just a thought.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Binder Fred, post: 6028260, member: 63746"] True. Would you be willing to slightly bend the letter of the rules in the spirit of logic then? After all, Knockback basically gives you a Bull Rush because you hit hard (specifically here: "like a Large character"). If I do, strictly speaking, "hit like a Large character", what does my hat size have to do with it? Frankly, Bull Rush is not that great a manoeuver to begin with (I'm actually pushing characters out of reach of my own attacks, a big factor when you're playing a Flurry of Blows monk). I expect the biggest *numerical* advantage I'll get from it is from extra AoO when I have Reach (through Expansion) -- and in those cases my character *will* be Large or Larger anyway. I want Knockback at medium size because it's cool (I am NOT trying to build one of those ridiculous Flaming Ball of Death combos here) and I'm already paying a two feat "feat tax" to get it as it is (I would not be taking Power Attack or Improved Bull Rush without Knockback at the end). I *might* take Shock Trooper to try to gain *some* numerical advantage out of the wild Feat expense, though (because, of course, you need a Feat to do something that the basic Bull Rush maneuver should allow you to do in the first place if it was any good at all: Bull Rush in a 90 degree "fan" behind the target and gain an actual advantage when you actually manage to push people into other stuff... <sigh>). Sorry, guess I'm getting a little frustrated with the arbitrarely rail-roady nature of the Feat system (and the clunkiness of any combat manoeuver that diverges from the holly I-Hit-it-with-my-Sword)... The above still makes sense to my mind though... Thinking about it, and with your permission, I'd personnaly nerf the Shock Trooper Feat (Complete Warrior) a little: have the Trip attack only apply to the Bull-Rushed character (with maybe a -X tohit or to AC for the bumped-in character?) and it's a *simple trip attempt*, not an Improved Trip attempt (no following attack on a successful trip so locks the door on the Flaming Ball silliness). I think the Trip attempt should apply to impacts with anything one size category smaller than the target or bigger though (chairs, walls, the halfling on all fours behind your knees :)), not just another character... Just a thought. [/QUOTE]
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