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"Gamism," The Forge, and the Elephant in the Room
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<blockquote data-quote="Zelda Themelin" data-source="post: 5802946" data-attributes="member: 167"><p>I think basic idea of some greater unifying theory isn't bad at all. It might just been that way too eco-cetric way to push these ideas (even the wrong ones) is against scientific princible and is more way chaotic artist way to do it. And thus annoyance of bloatic personalites, internet as channel of communication and very sub-genre examples of systems coming from there. Those had extreamely low attraction value to me, and some of them suggested that creators were very troubled people.</p><p>Not perhaps truth, but that's how I assumed when I also read through other stuff on that web page.</p><p></p><p>I would say that it's nice to hear some people found something helpful from that site. I've mostly run on people whose games it ruined when one of them got too much into it. 3, mmh maybe 2 that counts occasions in RL. </p><p></p><p>But if what you say about 4th edition is true, maybe that's why I dislike 4th edition. I hate too much meta there. For some reason abtract rules living in different universe work for many other games, but not for my rpg. Maybe because I want rules to support my imagination rather than distract it. Plus I really like 3rd edition rules. I've played rpg:s with many different systems, most painful being Phoenix Command and Blue Planet. Too much complexity. And I actually rather liked Amber, though auction system for stats was almost as bad as arguing what are our own stats. </p><p></p><p>4th edition, as one forge game I own make very boring to read. Because rules relate so little into what game is actually about. Well, 4th edition is not so bad, it does have color pictures and interesting names for powers (not always a good thing). AD&D with it's lovely random rules (starting from very simple things like saves or thoc0) was still fun to read.</p><p></p><p>I probably won't be getting 5th edition, but I am interested what it will be in the end. What was 4th editions lesson to company/designers. 4th edition works for many people now, who might not be happy how 5th edition. I wonder if it's yet another market split.</p><p></p><p>Honesty most people on market prefer simple fantastic scifi/simple fantasy gaming. Look what sells now as computer games and movies. Most of us don't want to work when we play. It's relaxing hobby not quest for enlightment.</p><p></p><p>No hard working person has time to commit make every game-session good. When we all know that real problem why they are lacking is mostly too stresful life and how little time it leaves to think these imaginative worlds. That's why we play modules nowdays, while not even always agreeing with storyline, or ignoring it in some parts. What we ordinary gamers (and there isn't much young generation coming to gaming, at least not in my country) don't need is another do-it-yourself-resolutions-last-too-long-gamesystem. There must be lot of ready-to-play elements. Micromodules even within basic books. More than just the one, different examples for different themes would be cood, and that would also tell me what type of gaming that system supports well.</p><p></p><p>And there should be something that would attract new gamers. I would suggest comic book specials. People keep buying books they don't really need, if they are setting books. So it's important to create setting that will intrest people and that can be used to create that multi-parket between different attractiojn points. Do it well, like Angry Birds. If Hasbro/WotC is not willing/able to take this approach D&D story might just end. Though it will probably die lingering death. It needs desperately reboot to cool. We ramaining rpg hobby loving folk are mostly 34-76 year old. And when my still rpg playing palls get their first kid late 30 it's generation hobby transfer becomes unlikely. </p><p></p><p>I know this is mostly unrelated to this discussion and feel free to ignore me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zelda Themelin, post: 5802946, member: 167"] I think basic idea of some greater unifying theory isn't bad at all. It might just been that way too eco-cetric way to push these ideas (even the wrong ones) is against scientific princible and is more way chaotic artist way to do it. And thus annoyance of bloatic personalites, internet as channel of communication and very sub-genre examples of systems coming from there. Those had extreamely low attraction value to me, and some of them suggested that creators were very troubled people. Not perhaps truth, but that's how I assumed when I also read through other stuff on that web page. I would say that it's nice to hear some people found something helpful from that site. I've mostly run on people whose games it ruined when one of them got too much into it. 3, mmh maybe 2 that counts occasions in RL. But if what you say about 4th edition is true, maybe that's why I dislike 4th edition. I hate too much meta there. For some reason abtract rules living in different universe work for many other games, but not for my rpg. Maybe because I want rules to support my imagination rather than distract it. Plus I really like 3rd edition rules. I've played rpg:s with many different systems, most painful being Phoenix Command and Blue Planet. Too much complexity. And I actually rather liked Amber, though auction system for stats was almost as bad as arguing what are our own stats. 4th edition, as one forge game I own make very boring to read. Because rules relate so little into what game is actually about. Well, 4th edition is not so bad, it does have color pictures and interesting names for powers (not always a good thing). AD&D with it's lovely random rules (starting from very simple things like saves or thoc0) was still fun to read. I probably won't be getting 5th edition, but I am interested what it will be in the end. What was 4th editions lesson to company/designers. 4th edition works for many people now, who might not be happy how 5th edition. I wonder if it's yet another market split. Honesty most people on market prefer simple fantastic scifi/simple fantasy gaming. Look what sells now as computer games and movies. Most of us don't want to work when we play. It's relaxing hobby not quest for enlightment. No hard working person has time to commit make every game-session good. When we all know that real problem why they are lacking is mostly too stresful life and how little time it leaves to think these imaginative worlds. That's why we play modules nowdays, while not even always agreeing with storyline, or ignoring it in some parts. What we ordinary gamers (and there isn't much young generation coming to gaming, at least not in my country) don't need is another do-it-yourself-resolutions-last-too-long-gamesystem. There must be lot of ready-to-play elements. Micromodules even within basic books. More than just the one, different examples for different themes would be cood, and that would also tell me what type of gaming that system supports well. And there should be something that would attract new gamers. I would suggest comic book specials. People keep buying books they don't really need, if they are setting books. So it's important to create setting that will intrest people and that can be used to create that multi-parket between different attractiojn points. Do it well, like Angry Birds. If Hasbro/WotC is not willing/able to take this approach D&D story might just end. Though it will probably die lingering death. It needs desperately reboot to cool. We ramaining rpg hobby loving folk are mostly 34-76 year old. And when my still rpg playing palls get their first kid late 30 it's generation hobby transfer becomes unlikely. I know this is mostly unrelated to this discussion and feel free to ignore me. [/QUOTE]
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