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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Gencon: Any non-Essentials content coming up?
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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5653593" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>His claim is actually totally correct. Essentials did not make the game simpler <em>as a whole</em> - it can't do so, since it adds new options on top of what came before. </p><p> </p><p>But I think his point is also somewhat... irrelevant. The issue isn't about the system about a whole, it is about the options availale. What Essentials did was provide simpler <em>options</em> for those who wanted them. Some are bothered by this and see it as 'putting martial back in its place', which... is silly, really, since complex martial classes still exist. Nothing has been taken away from them. I do get those who don't like it and would rather the design space went to material that they prefer... but in the end, the game caters to many people, and it isn't a bad thing that WotC provided options that some folks were asking for. </p><p> </p><p>For myself, I enjoy having both areas available. I don't buy Marshall's argument that Slayers and Knights are somehow more complex than pre-Essentials classes, or that Weaponmasters and Barbarians who never use their Encounter and Daily powers are somehow more effective than a Slayer who stays in one stance all day. That doesn't seem backed up by any reasonable analysis of the classes, nor do my experiences provide any support for his argument that Essentials classes are more difficult to use in actual play. But it's clear I won't be able to convince him of that, and he doesn't seem willing to address any of the actual points being made, so... I'm willing to leave it at that. </p><p> </p><p>I am hopeful that WotC will provide a balanced amount of support for classes in the future. But I can't find any fault in them continuing to push the limits of the system and try and find ways for class design that yields distinct but balanced options for those who want them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5653593, member: 61155"] His claim is actually totally correct. Essentials did not make the game simpler [I]as a whole[/I] - it can't do so, since it adds new options on top of what came before. But I think his point is also somewhat... irrelevant. The issue isn't about the system about a whole, it is about the options availale. What Essentials did was provide simpler [I]options[/I] for those who wanted them. Some are bothered by this and see it as 'putting martial back in its place', which... is silly, really, since complex martial classes still exist. Nothing has been taken away from them. I do get those who don't like it and would rather the design space went to material that they prefer... but in the end, the game caters to many people, and it isn't a bad thing that WotC provided options that some folks were asking for. For myself, I enjoy having both areas available. I don't buy Marshall's argument that Slayers and Knights are somehow more complex than pre-Essentials classes, or that Weaponmasters and Barbarians who never use their Encounter and Daily powers are somehow more effective than a Slayer who stays in one stance all day. That doesn't seem backed up by any reasonable analysis of the classes, nor do my experiences provide any support for his argument that Essentials classes are more difficult to use in actual play. But it's clear I won't be able to convince him of that, and he doesn't seem willing to address any of the actual points being made, so... I'm willing to leave it at that. I am hopeful that WotC will provide a balanced amount of support for classes in the future. But I can't find any fault in them continuing to push the limits of the system and try and find ways for class design that yields distinct but balanced options for those who want them. [/QUOTE]
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