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General Discussion Thread II
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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3790618" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>Hmmm...I think you misunderstand me. Let me try to explain a different way (no worries about seeming angry or making personal attacks--I never thought you were. Similarly, please don't think I'm trying to patronise you with the following: I'm curious that I'm being misunderstood). M&M is an effect-based system, right? Letting other PCs borrow the Device is actually a benefit of having devices, yes? It makes them more versatile. So if other PCs can't use it, it actually makes the device weaker. Thus, if we ignore everything else, restricting the device so other PCs can't use it should either be a Drawback and give back points or (more likely I think) cost nothing. But then you have to factor in the bad guys grabbing the Device and using it against the party. Because of that, they charge you points for Restricted--Restricted prevents the bad guys from using your own power against you. So if I say I don't mind the bad guys using it against me, in the end, then, the only thing Restricted does is prevent allies from using the Device, thus making it weaker. Because of that, I think the net effect of the Restricted is not a benefit for the character in any way and thus shouldn't really cost points. Do you get what I'm saying? It might be worth considering it as a 2 point Restricted offset by a 2 point Drawback of "can be used by any enemy at GM's discretion". Honestly I could see a player asking for an extra point or two instead of a break even, since it is strictly weaker than just letting others use it, but I don't want an extra point because I actually want to limit it away from other players just to make the game more fun, since sharing with other PCs would be too gimmicky.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Granted. But M&M is also an effect-based system. An easy to lose device is easy to lose because the player says it is and pays for it, not because of its shape. Someone else might have a hard to lose ring that is harder to disarm than Sierra's, while Sierra's comes off more easily. Maybe though most heroes have hard to lose armour, one guy pays for an easy to lose armour and so it has a button on the front that removes it and contracts the armour into a little ball in the hand of the button presser (usually used by the hero to take it off quickly, but villains can activate it with a disarm check). The point is, the effect matters, not the flavour text. Here the effect is easy to disarm. The flavour text is ring.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Disguise is also the ability to pull off a Disguise, whether or not you have make-up. You didn't answer my example of why his ruling is extremely odd--what if the Disguise does not require any sort of make-up because you aren't pretending to be a specific person and your personal features are fairly plain, and the whole of the Disguise is donning a guard uniform and then being good at staying in character? (in other words, the disguise is just you in a guard uniform). Disguise is definitely the skill you use in that situation. Are you telling me that A guy with +30 to Disguise is identical to the guy with +0 and that putting on the makeup for ten minutes will change that? I'll bet that if someone phrased the question that way, they'd get a different answer.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Of course, someone else said that it's definitely allowable and pointed out their character that has exactly that build...plus the Boost, as often the case with Boost, seems much more abusive to me than just doing it my way in a "Hey, let's make everyone on our team into master Wizards by Boosting them all with Total Fade" kind of way. Despite what some people on ATT think (and I'm glad to see you don't seem to agree with them on this), I just want the game to be fun for everyone. That's why most of her stuff is utility powers to let everyone else shine--Sierra can help figure out where to go and then get you there, plus befuddle some minions and maybe protect the group if she's lucky, but the others have to be around to do the real hero stuff (real villains don't fail DC 20 Will saves often <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 3790618, member: 29014"] Hmmm...I think you misunderstand me. Let me try to explain a different way (no worries about seeming angry or making personal attacks--I never thought you were. Similarly, please don't think I'm trying to patronise you with the following: I'm curious that I'm being misunderstood). M&M is an effect-based system, right? Letting other PCs borrow the Device is actually a benefit of having devices, yes? It makes them more versatile. So if other PCs can't use it, it actually makes the device weaker. Thus, if we ignore everything else, restricting the device so other PCs can't use it should either be a Drawback and give back points or (more likely I think) cost nothing. But then you have to factor in the bad guys grabbing the Device and using it against the party. Because of that, they charge you points for Restricted--Restricted prevents the bad guys from using your own power against you. So if I say I don't mind the bad guys using it against me, in the end, then, the only thing Restricted does is prevent allies from using the Device, thus making it weaker. Because of that, I think the net effect of the Restricted is not a benefit for the character in any way and thus shouldn't really cost points. Do you get what I'm saying? It might be worth considering it as a 2 point Restricted offset by a 2 point Drawback of "can be used by any enemy at GM's discretion". Honestly I could see a player asking for an extra point or two instead of a break even, since it is strictly weaker than just letting others use it, but I don't want an extra point because I actually want to limit it away from other players just to make the game more fun, since sharing with other PCs would be too gimmicky. Granted. But M&M is also an effect-based system. An easy to lose device is easy to lose because the player says it is and pays for it, not because of its shape. Someone else might have a hard to lose ring that is harder to disarm than Sierra's, while Sierra's comes off more easily. Maybe though most heroes have hard to lose armour, one guy pays for an easy to lose armour and so it has a button on the front that removes it and contracts the armour into a little ball in the hand of the button presser (usually used by the hero to take it off quickly, but villains can activate it with a disarm check). The point is, the effect matters, not the flavour text. Here the effect is easy to disarm. The flavour text is ring. Disguise is also the ability to pull off a Disguise, whether or not you have make-up. You didn't answer my example of why his ruling is extremely odd--what if the Disguise does not require any sort of make-up because you aren't pretending to be a specific person and your personal features are fairly plain, and the whole of the Disguise is donning a guard uniform and then being good at staying in character? (in other words, the disguise is just you in a guard uniform). Disguise is definitely the skill you use in that situation. Are you telling me that A guy with +30 to Disguise is identical to the guy with +0 and that putting on the makeup for ten minutes will change that? I'll bet that if someone phrased the question that way, they'd get a different answer. Of course, someone else said that it's definitely allowable and pointed out their character that has exactly that build...plus the Boost, as often the case with Boost, seems much more abusive to me than just doing it my way in a "Hey, let's make everyone on our team into master Wizards by Boosting them all with Total Fade" kind of way. Despite what some people on ATT think (and I'm glad to see you don't seem to agree with them on this), I just want the game to be fun for everyone. That's why most of her stuff is utility powers to let everyone else shine--Sierra can help figure out where to go and then get you there, plus befuddle some minions and maybe protect the group if she's lucky, but the others have to be around to do the real hero stuff (real villains don't fail DC 20 Will saves often ;)). [/QUOTE]
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