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GNS Theorists wanted: Making my 13thAge and Sentinel Comics games better
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8657807" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>I ran 13th Age for a four and a half year campaign that ended fairly successfully. I ran it similar to how I run 5e, but that's not particular close to how others run 5e.</p><p></p><p>Talking GNS (which is not my strong point) and related theory, it's more of a high concept sim than anything else - it was written as a "love letter" to D&D by two of the lead designers of previous editions, so that's a good starting point.</p><p></p><p>But the default amount of player authorial voice seems a lot higher than what I see in traditional D&D. Between the background system and OUT (One Unique Thing), we already have a level of definition that defies a simulation-first view at all times. Especially as the examples show that it is expected that these not only define the character but add into the world. And the rules explicitly give permission to hack the rules in order to match the character concept wanted, things like "sure, trade out a feature from another class".</p><p></p><p>The default setting also only being defined in broad strokes, designed to evoke the imagination and give ideas about adventures - "full of hooks and awesome!" as I've said before give a fertile ground for the players to flesh out around their characters without contradiction, and when I ran I embraced that. Following the "This is true AND...", I also took the PCs as subject matter experts for whatever they were focused on. While I hadn't come across the phrase yet in my DM journey, what I practiced a lot of was "ask pointed questions and act on the results". (Thank you Masks, a PbtA, for so succinctly summing up what I do.)</p><p></p><p>Rituals are another example - magic can literally do anything you can convince the DM is appropriate for the level and type of magic you are converting. The only place magic needs to be rigerously defined is combat, harking back to those D&D simulation combat roots.</p><p></p><p>Even the characters are left with room to flesh out that a full simultation game would cover. At a point in a Living Dungeon one of my players asked if any of the races had darkvision or the equivalent. So I turned it around and asked it right back to each representitive of a race. Turns out of the races we had, the only one that could see in the dark was the Dwarfforged, but that was because they literally had lamps built into their eyes, so it also made them poor at hiding in the dark. Beautiful, that's true. (And later got fleshed out that dwarforged could communicate via lamp semaphore (<em>cough*binary</em>).</p><p></p><p>The next step is more in-world, with the Icon relationships. As the icons are the movers and shakers in the campaign world (or should be - if you keep asking "why" enough times it should always lead back to action between two or more), and the players have connections and contacts with them - even if indirectly or nebulously - it makes the characters important well before they would be in a D&D game due to level and tales of heroics. They are very much the heroes of the story, and the mechanics supports that at even low character levels.</p><p></p><p>Icons in some ways are like fronts in a PbtA game. They are out there, all of the characters have connections and relationships to them, and most everything can be eventually tracked back to them. Some DMs would just run with the icon relation rolls to direct the action of the whole session while at the time I was running I was in more of a D&D mode and had more traditional adventure prep going. If I ran it now, having run more systems, that would likely ease up.</p><p></p><p>Talking about prep, my first page of my session prep document had each character, their backgrounds, a list of important features they took so I could make sure they showed up, and a list of the icons broken down by the charactrer relationships with them. The icons with no relationships never really made any more than background entries in the campaign, while the heavily featured ones were recurrent and behind most of the plot at some degree of separation (or not in the higher levels).</p><p></p><p>(Icon related aside: One of the characters <em>sold his name</em> in a goblin market to recover soemthing quite important to his Koru Behemoth-dwelling clan. The High Druid, whom he had a strong positive relationship with, ended up killing herself onscreen in the creation of what will be a new Axis Mundi/World Tree that will shepherd in the 14th Age. He was very tied to that event, and his OUT was "Emissary of the Koru". At the end of the campaign, we realized that he was perfectly set up be step into becoming an icon in the new age, down to finding the mantle/archetype of what he does more important that his name. Okay, tangent done.)</p><p></p><p>Trying to steer this back to GNS theory. While often simulationist (in combat) and narrativist (elsewhere) to play to the respective strengths and game expectations of each, there are gamist underpinings to just make it work smoothly and in a streamlined way. Take a look at the feature/spell recovery model. While there's some fun variations, it's basically at-will, per-encounter, or per full-heal-up. But the full-heal-up isn't under character control, it's based on four good battles. Could be a three week trek across a hostile jungle, or a morning in a dungeon. There's no five minute workdays, and resource attrition in built-in in a way that supports a wide range of how a DM runs automatically.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and that reminds me about if the players do agree they really need a full heal up early. They can do so, but at the cost of a campaign setback. Bam, there's no mincing here. As a DM I personally would work out stakes with them before they decide yes or no. And campaign setbacks are also the currency for a full and successful retreat, including dead bodies. So a retreat is always possible, it just that campaign-wise there will be repercussions for it.</p><p></p><p>I hope this is helpful in some small way, even if it's just seeing places I acknowledge I'd run differently now that I have a wider experience. Since you asked specifically about GNS I have to say that what little advice in that scope I could give is that the game can play in different S vs N ascendant modes depending if it's in or out of combat, with some gamist rules to keep everything on track and working.</p><p></p><p>And the only thing I can say about Sentinel Comics RPG is that I want to play it as well.</p><p></p><p>Best of luck and good gaming.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: wurds hard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8657807, member: 20564"] I ran 13th Age for a four and a half year campaign that ended fairly successfully. I ran it similar to how I run 5e, but that's not particular close to how others run 5e. Talking GNS (which is not my strong point) and related theory, it's more of a high concept sim than anything else - it was written as a "love letter" to D&D by two of the lead designers of previous editions, so that's a good starting point. But the default amount of player authorial voice seems a lot higher than what I see in traditional D&D. Between the background system and OUT (One Unique Thing), we already have a level of definition that defies a simulation-first view at all times. Especially as the examples show that it is expected that these not only define the character but add into the world. And the rules explicitly give permission to hack the rules in order to match the character concept wanted, things like "sure, trade out a feature from another class". The default setting also only being defined in broad strokes, designed to evoke the imagination and give ideas about adventures - "full of hooks and awesome!" as I've said before give a fertile ground for the players to flesh out around their characters without contradiction, and when I ran I embraced that. Following the "This is true AND...", I also took the PCs as subject matter experts for whatever they were focused on. While I hadn't come across the phrase yet in my DM journey, what I practiced a lot of was "ask pointed questions and act on the results". (Thank you Masks, a PbtA, for so succinctly summing up what I do.) Rituals are another example - magic can literally do anything you can convince the DM is appropriate for the level and type of magic you are converting. The only place magic needs to be rigerously defined is combat, harking back to those D&D simulation combat roots. Even the characters are left with room to flesh out that a full simultation game would cover. At a point in a Living Dungeon one of my players asked if any of the races had darkvision or the equivalent. So I turned it around and asked it right back to each representitive of a race. Turns out of the races we had, the only one that could see in the dark was the Dwarfforged, but that was because they literally had lamps built into their eyes, so it also made them poor at hiding in the dark. Beautiful, that's true. (And later got fleshed out that dwarforged could communicate via lamp semaphore ([I]cough*binary[/I]). The next step is more in-world, with the Icon relationships. As the icons are the movers and shakers in the campaign world (or should be - if you keep asking "why" enough times it should always lead back to action between two or more), and the players have connections and contacts with them - even if indirectly or nebulously - it makes the characters important well before they would be in a D&D game due to level and tales of heroics. They are very much the heroes of the story, and the mechanics supports that at even low character levels. Icons in some ways are like fronts in a PbtA game. They are out there, all of the characters have connections and relationships to them, and most everything can be eventually tracked back to them. Some DMs would just run with the icon relation rolls to direct the action of the whole session while at the time I was running I was in more of a D&D mode and had more traditional adventure prep going. If I ran it now, having run more systems, that would likely ease up. Talking about prep, my first page of my session prep document had each character, their backgrounds, a list of important features they took so I could make sure they showed up, and a list of the icons broken down by the charactrer relationships with them. The icons with no relationships never really made any more than background entries in the campaign, while the heavily featured ones were recurrent and behind most of the plot at some degree of separation (or not in the higher levels). (Icon related aside: One of the characters [I]sold his name[/I] in a goblin market to recover soemthing quite important to his Koru Behemoth-dwelling clan. The High Druid, whom he had a strong positive relationship with, ended up killing herself onscreen in the creation of what will be a new Axis Mundi/World Tree that will shepherd in the 14th Age. He was very tied to that event, and his OUT was "Emissary of the Koru". At the end of the campaign, we realized that he was perfectly set up be step into becoming an icon in the new age, down to finding the mantle/archetype of what he does more important that his name. Okay, tangent done.) Trying to steer this back to GNS theory. While often simulationist (in combat) and narrativist (elsewhere) to play to the respective strengths and game expectations of each, there are gamist underpinings to just make it work smoothly and in a streamlined way. Take a look at the feature/spell recovery model. While there's some fun variations, it's basically at-will, per-encounter, or per full-heal-up. But the full-heal-up isn't under character control, it's based on four good battles. Could be a three week trek across a hostile jungle, or a morning in a dungeon. There's no five minute workdays, and resource attrition in built-in in a way that supports a wide range of how a DM runs automatically. Oh, and that reminds me about if the players do agree they really need a full heal up early. They can do so, but at the cost of a campaign setback. Bam, there's no mincing here. As a DM I personally would work out stakes with them before they decide yes or no. And campaign setbacks are also the currency for a full and successful retreat, including dead bodies. So a retreat is always possible, it just that campaign-wise there will be repercussions for it. I hope this is helpful in some small way, even if it's just seeing places I acknowledge I'd run differently now that I have a wider experience. Since you asked specifically about GNS I have to say that what little advice in that scope I could give is that the game can play in different S vs N ascendant modes depending if it's in or out of combat, with some gamist rules to keep everything on track and working. And the only thing I can say about Sentinel Comics RPG is that I want to play it as well. Best of luck and good gaming. EDIT: wurds hard. [/QUOTE]
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