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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Good adventure that shows 4E's strengths?
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<blockquote data-quote="Scrivener of Doom" data-source="post: 6649447" data-attributes="member: 87576"><p>That's what happened during our version of it: a small sentence in the adventure became the prelude to the next, fairly extensive campaign arc that concluded with a battle with the lich Valindra and a SC/battle with the awakening claw of the tarrasque which was both a hazard and a monster. (This was under Morgur's Mound and the awakening claw caused tremors, rockfalls, and opened chasms across the battlemap. Lots of fun! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ) And this was all because the player of an Uthgardt barbarian noted that the Bones of the Thunderbeast had been turned into totems of Thayan necromancy and determined that he should recover them and return them to Morgur's Mound. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Chris Perkins. Logan Bonner was also very good but he wasn't on staff, IIRC. But Chris's DM Experience column really showed how well he got 4E; arguably his AI games did the same. </p><p></p><p>By contrast, I watched a YouTube video of Chris with Mike Mearls discussing adventure design at GenCon or similar convention. When Mike was asked about his current campaign he said he didn't have one. I suppose that was reflected in the fact that the only 4E adventures with his name on are absolute garbage (and turned into two of the great ads for Pathfinder!), and he was the only 4E designer whose latter work - at a time when 4E products were fairly well-liked - was largely panned (<em>Heroes of Shadow</em>). </p><p></p><p>But the biggest disappointment for me as an adventure writer for WotC during the 4E period was Bruce Cordell. Up until <em>The Sunless Citadel</em>, I was a big fan of his adventures but that marked the high point before a major decline over the course of 3.xE and then the near-nadir of <em>Keep on the Shadowfell</em> as co-author and then the absolute nadir of those horrible Epic monstrosities whose names I will not even look up. Fortunately, like Mike, he did some good non-adventure design work for 4E but his name on an adventure for 4E is the kiss of death, IMO.</p><p></p><p>----</p><p></p><p>As for the immediate and triggered action problem, yeah, that's huge. Because my players are fundamentally lazy, I have prepared cheat sheets for these actions written in stat block format with <em>triggers</em> and <em>effects</em>. Of course, <em>good</em> players would prepare them for themselves... but at least this gives me a chance to really get across what the PCs can do between turns. And as I have a reasonable memory for this sort of stuff, I can often help with a hint when I see a player paralysed with the great burden of responsibility that comes from turning up to enjoy himself for four hours and having to remember to bring dice.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I find the cheat sheets to be vital.</p><p></p><p>Also, getting the players to have some basic tactics pre-prepared - as MoutonRustique has already mentioned - is also really important. Fortunately my most addled player has a barbarian with <em>howling strike</em>, a <em>vanguard weapon</em>, and <em>badge of berserker</em> (ignore OAs on a charge) so that boils down to "How about you just open with a charge attack that, if it hits, will deal d12+d8+d6+11 damage?" I find that, once that opening attack is out of the way, he then starts to focus.</p><p></p><p>Even though players and 4E detractors often complain about the difficulty of managing 4E's fairly complicated characters, in reality it's not that much different to earlier editions when 1. a lot of campaigns involved PCs with a lot of magic items and 2. you had to look up your spells (or feats) in the PHB or UA or an issue of <em>Dragon</em> or a splat book or a spreadsheet where you toggle your buffs on or off (as my players in 3.5E used to do). The only real differences in 4E are 1. that all the information is there on your character sheet and 2. that magic items don't typically make as much difference.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scrivener of Doom, post: 6649447, member: 87576"] That's what happened during our version of it: a small sentence in the adventure became the prelude to the next, fairly extensive campaign arc that concluded with a battle with the lich Valindra and a SC/battle with the awakening claw of the tarrasque which was both a hazard and a monster. (This was under Morgur's Mound and the awakening claw caused tremors, rockfalls, and opened chasms across the battlemap. Lots of fun! :) ) And this was all because the player of an Uthgardt barbarian noted that the Bones of the Thunderbeast had been turned into totems of Thayan necromancy and determined that he should recover them and return them to Morgur's Mound. Chris Perkins. Logan Bonner was also very good but he wasn't on staff, IIRC. But Chris's DM Experience column really showed how well he got 4E; arguably his AI games did the same. By contrast, I watched a YouTube video of Chris with Mike Mearls discussing adventure design at GenCon or similar convention. When Mike was asked about his current campaign he said he didn't have one. I suppose that was reflected in the fact that the only 4E adventures with his name on are absolute garbage (and turned into two of the great ads for Pathfinder!), and he was the only 4E designer whose latter work - at a time when 4E products were fairly well-liked - was largely panned ([I]Heroes of Shadow[/I]). But the biggest disappointment for me as an adventure writer for WotC during the 4E period was Bruce Cordell. Up until [I]The Sunless Citadel[/I], I was a big fan of his adventures but that marked the high point before a major decline over the course of 3.xE and then the near-nadir of [I]Keep on the Shadowfell[/I] as co-author and then the absolute nadir of those horrible Epic monstrosities whose names I will not even look up. Fortunately, like Mike, he did some good non-adventure design work for 4E but his name on an adventure for 4E is the kiss of death, IMO. ---- As for the immediate and triggered action problem, yeah, that's huge. Because my players are fundamentally lazy, I have prepared cheat sheets for these actions written in stat block format with [I]triggers[/I] and [I]effects[/I]. Of course, [I]good[/I] players would prepare them for themselves... but at least this gives me a chance to really get across what the PCs can do between turns. And as I have a reasonable memory for this sort of stuff, I can often help with a hint when I see a player paralysed with the great burden of responsibility that comes from turning up to enjoy himself for four hours and having to remember to bring dice. Anyway, I find the cheat sheets to be vital. Also, getting the players to have some basic tactics pre-prepared - as MoutonRustique has already mentioned - is also really important. Fortunately my most addled player has a barbarian with [I]howling strike[/I], a [I]vanguard weapon[/I], and [I]badge of berserker[/I] (ignore OAs on a charge) so that boils down to "How about you just open with a charge attack that, if it hits, will deal d12+d8+d6+11 damage?" I find that, once that opening attack is out of the way, he then starts to focus. Even though players and 4E detractors often complain about the difficulty of managing 4E's fairly complicated characters, in reality it's not that much different to earlier editions when 1. a lot of campaigns involved PCs with a lot of magic items and 2. you had to look up your spells (or feats) in the PHB or UA or an issue of [I]Dragon[/I] or a splat book or a spreadsheet where you toggle your buffs on or off (as my players in 3.5E used to do). The only real differences in 4E are 1. that all the information is there on your character sheet and 2. that magic items don't typically make as much difference. [/QUOTE]
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