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Good/Evil vs. Law/Chaos
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<blockquote data-quote="tuxgeo" data-source="post: 4632235" data-attributes="member: 61026"><p>There are many different definitions for alignment; the above is one of them. </p><p></p><p>In D&D terms, part of this is due to the fact that the brand changed writers; E.G.G. had his ideas, Mentzer had his ideas, and Cook/Tweet/Williams had theirs (among others). </p><p>For Gygax (in the 1e DMG), Good was identified with the <strong>principles</strong> of Life, Liberty, and the prospect of Happiness. ("Hey, Gary -- way to crib the U.S. Declaration of Independence.") This naturally led to an identification of Good with Principles -- because, you know, <u><em>there the principles are</em></u>, clearly stated -- but this was largely due (IMHO) to the fact that if you don't defend the rights of others, they are unlikely to defend your rights in return. (That isn't <em>altruism</em>, it is <em>thinking ahead</em>.) </p><p></p><p>For Cook/Tweet/Williams, the identifications of Law=Order and Good=Altruism are pretty close -- but those are vastly different from Gygax's non-altruistic version of Good. </p><p></p><p>Another Gygaxism is about Evil: he was quoted somewhere as having said that, for him, the clearest expression of Evil was the old W.C. Fields line, "Never give a sucker an even break." (Sorry, I don't have a link to the quote.) </p><p>Much along the same line, Gore Vidal is quoted as saying, "It is not enough to succeed, others must fail" -- which I personally think is about as Evil as the Fields quote, because the Vidal quote subsumes the Fields quote: it states that any sucker would have to fail in order for you to succeed. </p><p></p><p>Personally, I hold that a Good person prefers Win-Win situations ("there does not have to be any loser, here"), while an Evil person prefers Win-Lose situations ("for every winner, there is always a loser"). However, I have no idea how that could be implemented in game terms. </p><p></p><p>Some other takes on alignment: </p><p><a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a" target="_blank">WotC, 25 March 2005</a></p><p><a href="http://nwvault.ign.com/?dir=thegame&content=alignment" target="_blank">Neverwinter</a></p><p><a href="http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=9" target="_blank">Mandos' editorial revision of Neverwinter</a></p><p><a href="http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=10" target="_blank">Steelhammer's "Law=Justice, not Rules" revision </a></p><p><a href="http://codepoet.org/%7Emarkw/DnD/alignment_articulation.html" target="_blank">CodePoet's "Whose Law" interpretation</a> (with lots of examples)</p><p><a href="http://www.dndadventure.com/html/articles/alignment.html" target="_blank">The "why you did it" simplification: </a></p><p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2309230" target="_blank">A variant "why you healed it" simplification:</a> </p><p><a href="http://www.gamegrene.com/node/232" target="_blank">Scorpio's "GameGrene" Experience</a></p><p>. . . and it gets worse: <a href="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95858" target="_blank">Recalculate Daily:</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tuxgeo, post: 4632235, member: 61026"] There are many different definitions for alignment; the above is one of them. In D&D terms, part of this is due to the fact that the brand changed writers; E.G.G. had his ideas, Mentzer had his ideas, and Cook/Tweet/Williams had theirs (among others). For Gygax (in the 1e DMG), Good was identified with the [B]principles[/B] of Life, Liberty, and the prospect of Happiness. ("Hey, Gary -- way to crib the U.S. Declaration of Independence.") This naturally led to an identification of Good with Principles -- because, you know, [U][I]there the principles are[/I][/U], clearly stated -- but this was largely due (IMHO) to the fact that if you don't defend the rights of others, they are unlikely to defend your rights in return. (That isn't [I]altruism[/I], it is [I]thinking ahead[/I].) For Cook/Tweet/Williams, the identifications of Law=Order and Good=Altruism are pretty close -- but those are vastly different from Gygax's non-altruistic version of Good. Another Gygaxism is about Evil: he was quoted somewhere as having said that, for him, the clearest expression of Evil was the old W.C. Fields line, "Never give a sucker an even break." (Sorry, I don't have a link to the quote.) Much along the same line, Gore Vidal is quoted as saying, "It is not enough to succeed, others must fail" -- which I personally think is about as Evil as the Fields quote, because the Vidal quote subsumes the Fields quote: it states that any sucker would have to fail in order for you to succeed. Personally, I hold that a Good person prefers Win-Win situations ("there does not have to be any loser, here"), while an Evil person prefers Win-Lose situations ("for every winner, there is always a loser"). However, I have no idea how that could be implemented in game terms. Some other takes on alignment: [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a"]WotC, 25 March 2005[/URL] [URL="http://nwvault.ign.com/?dir=thegame&content=alignment"]Neverwinter[/URL] [URL="http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=9"]Mandos' editorial revision of Neverwinter[/URL] [URL="http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=10"]Steelhammer's "Law=Justice, not Rules" revision [/URL] [URL="http://codepoet.org/%7Emarkw/DnD/alignment_articulation.html"]CodePoet's "Whose Law" interpretation[/URL] (with lots of examples) [URL="http://www.dndadventure.com/html/articles/alignment.html"]The "why you did it" simplification: [/URL] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2309230"]A variant "why you healed it" simplification:[/URL] [URL="http://www.gamegrene.com/node/232"]Scorpio's "GameGrene" Experience[/URL] . . . and it gets worse: [URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95858"]Recalculate Daily:[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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