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Good rewards and penalties for winning or losing a skill challenge
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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 5128643" data-attributes="member: 29013"><p>This is an area that I don’t think has gotten enough attention, even with the DMG2. A lot of the published skill challenges still seem to have problematic rewards and penalties. </p><p> </p><p>For instance, I see a lot of reliance on “fail and you enter combat” with the combat being a level appropriate combat. Unless there is a severe time crunch or those used resources will really make a difference in the next combats (rare), then this is just another opportunity for XP and not a penalty at all!</p><p> </p><p><strong>I’m beginning to think that skill challenges should not be used unless there is a real in game story consequence that the players and characters care about.</strong></p><p> </p><p>For a good example, the sample skill challenge in Star Wars Saga Galaxy of Intrigue has each failed skill check equal the loss of a certain amount of fellow escaped prisoners (they are killed or recaptured by the enemy). No matter what, the PCs reach an escape vehicle, but they pay a real penalty for failure on the skill challenge (especially if they got to know some of the fellow prisoners before hand), and the failure opens up new possibilities – will the recaptured prisoner blame the PCs and try to seek revenge later?</p><p> </p><p>For another example, take the common “Overland Travel SC” with failure meaning loss of healing surges. This is mostly meaningless – it is not likely to really mean anything more than an earlier extended rest unless the scenario is very specific to throw a bunch of tough combats in after the SC without an extended rest (even then there isn't really a consequence unless a PC dies because of lack of healing surges they otherwise would have had). A more interesting consequence would be something like: if the PCs fail the overland SC they don’t get to where they were headed quick enough to stop [the ritual/the village from being sacked/etc.]. This makes the SC really count, and players feel a meaningful loss from losing the skill challenge (or meaningful win for beating it!). As the DMGs say, failure of a skill challenge shouldn't end an adventure, but I think it should represent the PCs goals being thwarted, delayed, etc. in a real way.</p><p> </p><p>Thoughts? For me, I think this was the missing link between seeing skill challenges as just ok to making it a meaningful part of my gaming sessions. Nowadays, I almost always try to find story results for SC, and avoid game mechanics penalties and combat encounters. (I never had a big problem with the execution of the challenges themselves. I use Obsidian and find my players engage quite well when they care about the outcome.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 5128643, member: 29013"] This is an area that I don’t think has gotten enough attention, even with the DMG2. A lot of the published skill challenges still seem to have problematic rewards and penalties. For instance, I see a lot of reliance on “fail and you enter combat” with the combat being a level appropriate combat. Unless there is a severe time crunch or those used resources will really make a difference in the next combats (rare), then this is just another opportunity for XP and not a penalty at all! [B]I’m beginning to think that skill challenges should not be used unless there is a real in game story consequence that the players and characters care about.[/B] For a good example, the sample skill challenge in Star Wars Saga Galaxy of Intrigue has each failed skill check equal the loss of a certain amount of fellow escaped prisoners (they are killed or recaptured by the enemy). No matter what, the PCs reach an escape vehicle, but they pay a real penalty for failure on the skill challenge (especially if they got to know some of the fellow prisoners before hand), and the failure opens up new possibilities – will the recaptured prisoner blame the PCs and try to seek revenge later? For another example, take the common “Overland Travel SC” with failure meaning loss of healing surges. This is mostly meaningless – it is not likely to really mean anything more than an earlier extended rest unless the scenario is very specific to throw a bunch of tough combats in after the SC without an extended rest (even then there isn't really a consequence unless a PC dies because of lack of healing surges they otherwise would have had). A more interesting consequence would be something like: if the PCs fail the overland SC they don’t get to where they were headed quick enough to stop [the ritual/the village from being sacked/etc.]. This makes the SC really count, and players feel a meaningful loss from losing the skill challenge (or meaningful win for beating it!). As the DMGs say, failure of a skill challenge shouldn't end an adventure, but I think it should represent the PCs goals being thwarted, delayed, etc. in a real way. Thoughts? For me, I think this was the missing link between seeing skill challenges as just ok to making it a meaningful part of my gaming sessions. Nowadays, I almost always try to find story results for SC, and avoid game mechanics penalties and combat encounters. (I never had a big problem with the execution of the challenges themselves. I use Obsidian and find my players engage quite well when they care about the outcome.) [/QUOTE]
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