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Good vs Evil: a matter of aims or a matter of means?
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<blockquote data-quote="Darkness" data-source="post: 1914022" data-attributes="member: 13"><p>Alright, let's give the man a few examples to work with...</p><p> </p><p>Li Shenron, please tell me what you think of each of the following situations, alignment-wise: Are the actions of the characters - whether their alignment is good or evil - morally good, evil or neither? Where you can discern it, feel free to point out the law/chaos axis as well. Everyone else's thoughts are very welcome, too, of course. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>A band of Good adventurers trespass on NE goblins' territory on the way to their destination on a quest to save a kind-of-Good city, and kill all goblin combatants they encounter on sight unless they are in the process of moving away from them. Goblins who survive the initial attack and surrender are spared, as are noncombatants. <span style="font-size: 9px">(Noncombatants are spared in this example because debates with a premise like "is killing goblin children wrong?" are tiresome and fruitless.)</span></p><p> </p><p>As above, but they don't accept any combatants' surrender, slaughtering them where they stand so they can't be a threat later. They also pursue and slaughter goblins they could have avoided to make sure they don't summon reinforcements. Goblin noncombatants are still spared.</p><p> </p><p>A red dragon obtains money through trading and uses it to spread the religion of a CE deity of slaughter. <span style="font-size: 9px">(Yes, this one is as simple as it seems.)</span></p><p> </p><p>A Lawful noble murders a N foreign adventurer to obtain his magic items because he needs more power to fight for his LN king in a war against CE orcs.</p><p> </p><p>A paladin patrols through a LG city, constantly <em>detecting evil</em>, and kills every adult who <em>detects</em> as evil, no matter their combat prowess, who they are or what they are doing at the moment.</p><p> </p><p>A LG ruler of a generally G realm orders the imprisonment and execution of those 5% of his adult population who want his N cousin, who has an almost equally legitimate claim to throne, to become the ruler, no matter their alignment, combat prowess or previous acts (or lack thereof) to weaken his rule.</p><p> </p><p>To prevent the spread of a magical plague that might cause great destruction, a paladin prince orders the slaughter of an entire city of his generally non-Evil people. Not wanting to lose valuable time, he doesn't even consider other options. <span style="font-size: 9px">(Yes, this is a Warcraft example.)</span></p><p> </p><p>A mostly NG human town and a NE goblin tribe have both grown in numbers over the years and are now regularly clashing over contested territory they both need to survive, leading to a war.</p><p> </p><p>As above. Hard-pressed by the humans, the goblins send a NE goblin assassin of high level to assassinate the human leadership to prevent their tribe's destruction.</p><p> </p><p>As above, but the other way around: The humans are hard-pressed and send a NG ranger to assassinate the goblin leadership.</p><p> </p><p>After a widespread famine, a Neutral-to-Good realm ruled by a Good queen is in great peril. One day, a powerful Evil outsider appears before the queen and offers her a deal: It will use its magical powers to continually provide food for the people but in exchange is given two citizens per week that it will eat. The queen, not wanting to see her people starve, reluctantly agrees.</p><p> </p><p>Due to the results of a large war in ages past, a tribe of CG elves are living as a minority under the rule of their human allies in the war, who are now ruled by a LN dictator. Neither the elves nor the humans have very much personal freedom but they are very safe and there is little crime. The Chaotic elves chafe very much under the dictator's rule and one day start to rebel against the dictator's forces to attain their freedom because they can't take it any longer, even though their actions will cause widespread chaos and destruction in the realm.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Darkness, post: 1914022, member: 13"] Alright, let's give the man a few examples to work with... Li Shenron, please tell me what you think of each of the following situations, alignment-wise: Are the actions of the characters - whether their alignment is good or evil - morally good, evil or neither? Where you can discern it, feel free to point out the law/chaos axis as well. Everyone else's thoughts are very welcome, too, of course. :) A band of Good adventurers trespass on NE goblins' territory on the way to their destination on a quest to save a kind-of-Good city, and kill all goblin combatants they encounter on sight unless they are in the process of moving away from them. Goblins who survive the initial attack and surrender are spared, as are noncombatants. [size=1](Noncombatants are spared in this example because debates with a premise like "is killing goblin children wrong?" are tiresome and fruitless.)[/size] As above, but they don't accept any combatants' surrender, slaughtering them where they stand so they can't be a threat later. They also pursue and slaughter goblins they could have avoided to make sure they don't summon reinforcements. Goblin noncombatants are still spared. A red dragon obtains money through trading and uses it to spread the religion of a CE deity of slaughter. [size=1](Yes, this one is as simple as it seems.)[/size] A Lawful noble murders a N foreign adventurer to obtain his magic items because he needs more power to fight for his LN king in a war against CE orcs. A paladin patrols through a LG city, constantly [i]detecting evil[/i], and kills every adult who [i]detects[/i] as evil, no matter their combat prowess, who they are or what they are doing at the moment. A LG ruler of a generally G realm orders the imprisonment and execution of those 5% of his adult population who want his N cousin, who has an almost equally legitimate claim to throne, to become the ruler, no matter their alignment, combat prowess or previous acts (or lack thereof) to weaken his rule. To prevent the spread of a magical plague that might cause great destruction, a paladin prince orders the slaughter of an entire city of his generally non-Evil people. Not wanting to lose valuable time, he doesn't even consider other options. [size=1](Yes, this is a Warcraft example.)[/size] A mostly NG human town and a NE goblin tribe have both grown in numbers over the years and are now regularly clashing over contested territory they both need to survive, leading to a war. As above. Hard-pressed by the humans, the goblins send a NE goblin assassin of high level to assassinate the human leadership to prevent their tribe's destruction. As above, but the other way around: The humans are hard-pressed and send a NG ranger to assassinate the goblin leadership. After a widespread famine, a Neutral-to-Good realm ruled by a Good queen is in great peril. One day, a powerful Evil outsider appears before the queen and offers her a deal: It will use its magical powers to continually provide food for the people but in exchange is given two citizens per week that it will eat. The queen, not wanting to see her people starve, reluctantly agrees. Due to the results of a large war in ages past, a tribe of CG elves are living as a minority under the rule of their human allies in the war, who are now ruled by a LN dictator. Neither the elves nor the humans have very much personal freedom but they are very safe and there is little crime. The Chaotic elves chafe very much under the dictator's rule and one day start to rebel against the dictator's forces to attain their freedom because they can't take it any longer, even though their actions will cause widespread chaos and destruction in the realm. [/QUOTE]
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