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Good vs Evil: a matter of aims or a matter of means?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aesmael" data-source="post: 1914435" data-attributes="member: 22503"><p>Normally I would read an entire thread before responding. But these questions tend to provoke very eloquent responses from people and I would like to have a go at answering it 'untainted'.</p><p></p><p>First: I strongly suspect that both means and ends must be good for the character to be good. But means count more for determining alignment. The objective generally comes into play for arbitrating actions that could go either way.</p><p>No, scratch that. I have been led to believe that alignment in the standard system is almost entirely determined by actions. Thus it might be possible for someone to have evil ends but, so long as those are being pursued by good means, still be 'good' under this system. So wert the D&D system, Means trumps Ends.</p><p></p><p>Will try to add to the list - and certainly keep tabs on its progress. Such a list was one of the goals I hoped to achieve with <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109854&page=1&pp=20" target="_blank">this</a> thread. Wert your personal power example, I would class it as neutral. It is only when they want it for something that the goal becomes aligned.</p><p></p><p>But I suspect the list will be very spare if everything is reduced, so: The accumulation of power would normally be accompanied by some desire to use it. Consequently, I submit that this will tend to be a <strong>Lawful</strong> goal rather than a good or an evil one, as your ultimate intention is to make things how they should be. Emphasis on tend.</p><p></p><p>To attempt to add to the list, I will start with something easy (?) and say that theft is a chaotic act. From the inspiration generated by that statement, I further submit that any act which confounds the expectations on which a society runs (i.e If I sleep in my bed I can reasonably expect not to be killed) will be chaotic.</p><p></p><p>With regards to your group, I find their paranoia amusing. I would say it is not good behaviour and probably not lawful but I am not confident to narrow it down further.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aesmael, post: 1914435, member: 22503"] Normally I would read an entire thread before responding. But these questions tend to provoke very eloquent responses from people and I would like to have a go at answering it 'untainted'. First: I strongly suspect that both means and ends must be good for the character to be good. But means count more for determining alignment. The objective generally comes into play for arbitrating actions that could go either way. No, scratch that. I have been led to believe that alignment in the standard system is almost entirely determined by actions. Thus it might be possible for someone to have evil ends but, so long as those are being pursued by good means, still be 'good' under this system. So wert the D&D system, Means trumps Ends. Will try to add to the list - and certainly keep tabs on its progress. Such a list was one of the goals I hoped to achieve with [URL=http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109854&page=1&pp=20]this[/URL] thread. Wert your personal power example, I would class it as neutral. It is only when they want it for something that the goal becomes aligned. But I suspect the list will be very spare if everything is reduced, so: The accumulation of power would normally be accompanied by some desire to use it. Consequently, I submit that this will tend to be a [B]Lawful[/B] goal rather than a good or an evil one, as your ultimate intention is to make things how they should be. Emphasis on tend. To attempt to add to the list, I will start with something easy (?) and say that theft is a chaotic act. From the inspiration generated by that statement, I further submit that any act which confounds the expectations on which a society runs (i.e If I sleep in my bed I can reasonably expect not to be killed) will be chaotic. With regards to your group, I find their paranoia amusing. I would say it is not good behaviour and probably not lawful but I am not confident to narrow it down further. [/QUOTE]
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