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Good vs Evil: a matter of aims or a matter of means?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kemrain" data-source="post: 1914842" data-attributes="member: 12153"><p>I'm going about this looking at it from the point of view of Good and Evil in the game I'm currently playing in. It's a bit extreme, but I think it's worht bringing up to show a contrast between points of view.</p><p> </p><p>Tresspassing is Chaotic, as it's a disregard for Law and local authority. Killing on sight is Evil, because it's murder. However, if you mean 'on sight and confirmed threat,' than it's Neutral, as self preservation is not truely good or evil. Letting non-coms and those who surrender go is a Good act, as it shows respect for life. To remain Good here, the adventurers need to avoid contact, have peaceful contact with the goblins, or fight as little as possible, trying to avoid killing at all costs. </p><p></p><p> Non-coms are spared, but anyone able to wield a weapon dies? Not Good. I'd say Evil, given that you're murdering non-hostiles by killing those who surrender.</p><p>Evil. a Deity of Slaughter isn't about happy puppies. the God's tennants involve the painful death of those who wish not to die, thus it's Evil. The means the Dragon uses to support the religion are irrelevant in this reguard. </p><p> </p><p>Murder is Evil, plain and simple. The ends do not justify those means, as peaceful solutions could have been had, and those magic items were not so absolutely necessary that murder was warranted. there was no crime committed, so the death is not punnishment, either. Chaotic and Evil.</p><p> </p><p>You mean an Ex-Paladin. Murder is Evil, this is Murder, this is Evil. If the Evil people were tried for crimes and convicted, killing them could be Lawful, and maybe even Neutral, but that's iffy. Chaotic Evil.</p><p> </p><p>Evil means to an Evil end. To punnish people for holding a different opinion is Evil, especially to punnish them with Death. Controling other's opinions, through whatever means, is wrong. Evil, but I think more Lawful than Chaotic., because it uses authority, and not simply power, to carry it's weight.</p><p> </p><p>Never played Warcraft 3... This is evil means to a good end. Evil. Not examining other tactics is rather blatantly Evil.</p><p> </p><p>Murder is Murder, whether it's Men or Goblins. Both Evil. I would also contend that warring openly is Evil as well. A Good solution would be to gather together and agree to share resources. I doubt a Good solution would ever come to pass in this situation.</p><p> </p><p>This, as written, is Evil. If you were to make being eaten by the Demon punnishment for a crime, that warrented a death penalty, it <strong>could</strong> be Neutral. If you put ittothe people, and asked for vlunteers to come forth and sacrifice themselves for the good of all, it could be a Good act, as long as the day you no longer got enough volunteers you broke the contract and didn't resourt to unwilling sacrifices. Suicide is not Evil, it's merely unfortunate, and suicide for noble reasons, for the good of others, can be a Good act, as any Paladin would know. (It's called being a Martyr.)</p><p></p><p>Causing chaos is Chaotic, rather obviously, and causing destruction can be Chaotic, Neutral or Evil, depending on what is destroyed. If it is nothing but property, and no one is harmed, it is merely Chaotic. If people are harmed, but by their own actions, and the Elves took steps to prevent the harm, it would be more Chaotic Neutral. If people were harmed or killed, and nothing was done to prevent it, it would be Evil.</p><p></p><p>I'll try to give an example of Evil intent put to Good ends...</p><p></p><p>The King hires an executioner who, while a Law abiding citizen who would never lift a hand against another and has never harmed another being unlawfully (outside of an execution that is), relishes in his duties and feels a rush of pleasure each time his axe bites into flesh. Clearly enjoying the death and dismemberment of another so much is Evil, but this man is put to good and Lawful use in society, and has never done anything 'wrong' other than enjoying his job far too much to be healthy. Is this man Good or Evil? Would it matter if he had a family of 5 and raised his children to be good upstanding citizens? (One of them is a Paladin!) He gives to charities, helps his neighbors and strangers alike in times of hardship, and, get this, voted against the death penalty in the last trial he sat in as juror. Is this man, who does something so terrible, daily, Evil?</p><p></p><p>Just an example off the top of my head. It may not be a good one at all. I feel I should point outthat, though I speak in absolute terms, everything I've said in this post is my opinion, and should be treated as such.</p><p></p><p>- Kemrain the [Evil].</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kemrain, post: 1914842, member: 12153"] I'm going about this looking at it from the point of view of Good and Evil in the game I'm currently playing in. It's a bit extreme, but I think it's worht bringing up to show a contrast between points of view. Tresspassing is Chaotic, as it's a disregard for Law and local authority. Killing on sight is Evil, because it's murder. However, if you mean 'on sight and confirmed threat,' than it's Neutral, as self preservation is not truely good or evil. Letting non-coms and those who surrender go is a Good act, as it shows respect for life. To remain Good here, the adventurers need to avoid contact, have peaceful contact with the goblins, or fight as little as possible, trying to avoid killing at all costs. Non-coms are spared, but anyone able to wield a weapon dies? Not Good. I'd say Evil, given that you're murdering non-hostiles by killing those who surrender. Evil. a Deity of Slaughter isn't about happy puppies. the God's tennants involve the painful death of those who wish not to die, thus it's Evil. The means the Dragon uses to support the religion are irrelevant in this reguard. Murder is Evil, plain and simple. The ends do not justify those means, as peaceful solutions could have been had, and those magic items were not so absolutely necessary that murder was warranted. there was no crime committed, so the death is not punnishment, either. Chaotic and Evil. You mean an Ex-Paladin. Murder is Evil, this is Murder, this is Evil. If the Evil people were tried for crimes and convicted, killing them could be Lawful, and maybe even Neutral, but that's iffy. Chaotic Evil. Evil means to an Evil end. To punnish people for holding a different opinion is Evil, especially to punnish them with Death. Controling other's opinions, through whatever means, is wrong. Evil, but I think more Lawful than Chaotic., because it uses authority, and not simply power, to carry it's weight. Never played Warcraft 3... This is evil means to a good end. Evil. Not examining other tactics is rather blatantly Evil. Murder is Murder, whether it's Men or Goblins. Both Evil. I would also contend that warring openly is Evil as well. A Good solution would be to gather together and agree to share resources. I doubt a Good solution would ever come to pass in this situation. This, as written, is Evil. If you were to make being eaten by the Demon punnishment for a crime, that warrented a death penalty, it [b]could[/b] be Neutral. If you put ittothe people, and asked for vlunteers to come forth and sacrifice themselves for the good of all, it could be a Good act, as long as the day you no longer got enough volunteers you broke the contract and didn't resourt to unwilling sacrifices. Suicide is not Evil, it's merely unfortunate, and suicide for noble reasons, for the good of others, can be a Good act, as any Paladin would know. (It's called being a Martyr.) Causing chaos is Chaotic, rather obviously, and causing destruction can be Chaotic, Neutral or Evil, depending on what is destroyed. If it is nothing but property, and no one is harmed, it is merely Chaotic. If people are harmed, but by their own actions, and the Elves took steps to prevent the harm, it would be more Chaotic Neutral. If people were harmed or killed, and nothing was done to prevent it, it would be Evil. I'll try to give an example of Evil intent put to Good ends... The King hires an executioner who, while a Law abiding citizen who would never lift a hand against another and has never harmed another being unlawfully (outside of an execution that is), relishes in his duties and feels a rush of pleasure each time his axe bites into flesh. Clearly enjoying the death and dismemberment of another so much is Evil, but this man is put to good and Lawful use in society, and has never done anything 'wrong' other than enjoying his job far too much to be healthy. Is this man Good or Evil? Would it matter if he had a family of 5 and raised his children to be good upstanding citizens? (One of them is a Paladin!) He gives to charities, helps his neighbors and strangers alike in times of hardship, and, get this, voted against the death penalty in the last trial he sat in as juror. Is this man, who does something so terrible, daily, Evil? Just an example off the top of my head. It may not be a good one at all. I feel I should point outthat, though I speak in absolute terms, everything I've said in this post is my opinion, and should be treated as such. - Kemrain the [Evil]. [/QUOTE]
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