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Goths, Celts and Vikings
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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 5294064" data-attributes="member: 2303"><p>We have little hard fact about the origin of the Goths. Their Swedish origin is today believed to be fanciful Swedish 15th century propaganda. Still, the shoe does not fit that badly; in many ways they are the precursors of the Vikings. Both Norsemen/vikings and Goths are germanic peoples; part of a larger culture. The Celts are also such a larger culture; comparing vikings to celts is like comparing Italians to Arabs; one is a nation, the other is a culture. My tip is to ignore the Goths and just think of them as a Norse subgroup. If you don't, you might as well invent them from scratch.</p><p></p><p>The naval issue is complicated by the fact that on Ireland, Celts and Germanic norsemen intermingled and created a nation (Dubliners) that became very good pirates and raiders. Some Irish raiders were thus descended from norsemen. But the Irish did raid long before the Norse came to their shores. Norse tales also tell how there were Irish monks on Iceland before the Norsemen settled there. Celtic naval technology might have been primitive, but they were not afraid to use it.</p><p></p><p>Vikings were a group of Norsemen who left their homes in search of adventure. They did so in larger numbers as the kings of their homeland gained more and more power. Not unexpectedly, the most chaotic and unruly Norse choose to leave when central authority became stronger, setting such places as Iceland. Scandinavia, the Norse homeland, was never really a "Viking" area: to be a viking was to go abroad. There are exceptions, such as King Knut (Canute) and Harald Hårdråda (Hardraada) and their invasions of England, who were more or less national wars made by kings who had first consolidated their power at home, but this was very late in the viking era. William the Conqueror was also Norse, the descendant of Norse who settled Normandy a century before and built a nation there. But neither of these are vikings, they are kings bent on conquest. "Proper" viking operations were on a much smaller scale, led by individuals rather than kings.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 5294064, member: 2303"] We have little hard fact about the origin of the Goths. Their Swedish origin is today believed to be fanciful Swedish 15th century propaganda. Still, the shoe does not fit that badly; in many ways they are the precursors of the Vikings. Both Norsemen/vikings and Goths are germanic peoples; part of a larger culture. The Celts are also such a larger culture; comparing vikings to celts is like comparing Italians to Arabs; one is a nation, the other is a culture. My tip is to ignore the Goths and just think of them as a Norse subgroup. If you don't, you might as well invent them from scratch. The naval issue is complicated by the fact that on Ireland, Celts and Germanic norsemen intermingled and created a nation (Dubliners) that became very good pirates and raiders. Some Irish raiders were thus descended from norsemen. But the Irish did raid long before the Norse came to their shores. Norse tales also tell how there were Irish monks on Iceland before the Norsemen settled there. Celtic naval technology might have been primitive, but they were not afraid to use it. Vikings were a group of Norsemen who left their homes in search of adventure. They did so in larger numbers as the kings of their homeland gained more and more power. Not unexpectedly, the most chaotic and unruly Norse choose to leave when central authority became stronger, setting such places as Iceland. Scandinavia, the Norse homeland, was never really a "Viking" area: to be a viking was to go abroad. There are exceptions, such as King Knut (Canute) and Harald Hårdråda (Hardraada) and their invasions of England, who were more or less national wars made by kings who had first consolidated their power at home, but this was very late in the viking era. William the Conqueror was also Norse, the descendant of Norse who settled Normandy a century before and built a nation there. But neither of these are vikings, they are kings bent on conquest. "Proper" viking operations were on a much smaller scale, led by individuals rather than kings. [/QUOTE]
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