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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9311889" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>That's literally something the book suggests as a viable possibility and that was part of the Kickstarter campaign! Saying people doing that are "missing the whole point" is thus supporting my point re: the general (perhaps subconscious) hostility of PtbA/FitD players to anyone not using every single rule in an extremely prescriptive way, despite you just saying "Well you don't have to use all the rules, obviously!" (and seemingly believing it!). I don't think they are missing the "whole point" at all - in fact, I think people who can only see utilizing every rule prescriptively aren't really comprehending how DW was constructed or how flexibly it can be used, and are stuck in outdated mindset where PtbA/FitD are to be defend from hostile hordes of rules-skimming barbarians. Even using D&D adventures and the like, It's still a fundamentally different approach to B/X or similar, too, the mindset has to be very different to use Moves and so on. A viable and non-hostile rephrasing of a similar sentiment might be that they're "missing out of some of the most interesting and exciting things DW can do" - but when you dismiss such people as "missing the whole point", well, you make my point for me.</p><p></p><p>And also no, that's not at all what he was saying re: a Dungeon World 2. He was specifically attacking D&D's colonialist undertones/subtext (something I've noted before but pretty much everyone seems uncomfortable discussing) and basically saying D&D (including 5E) was <em>very nasty</em> game that he no longer felt like was worth emulating. Stuff like killing things and taking their loot? He wanted no more of that - that was one of his specific examples of a thing he'd drop.</p><p></p><p>I can't find the original detailed discussion where he laid out his ideas but he does say in a still-available Tweet:</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=twitter]1270909681033084928[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>"DW is at best a reflection of where I was as an ally 10 years ago, and even then it has a lot of things that are entirely racist, sexist, or ableist and which I did not notice."</p><p></p><p>Which like, not really sure that's true buddy re: "entirely racist, sexist or ableist" - I'm struggling to even thing of anything even arguably sexist in DW - maybe some kind of of monster? I tried to see if anyone had any examples but they didn't - not even LaTorra himself. The racism seems to boil down to "the game has 'evil races' in it", which like, sure but I think when you stretch that to "entirely racist", rather than say "unfortunately reflective of frequently-racist tropes or something" you're perhaps getting a little self-indulgent in a strange way.</p><p></p><p>Also this:</p><p></p><p>"The thing that I had honestly never even considered from my privileged POV: why is DW still in my profile? <strong>Or up for sale?</strong> When I think of it I think of the good stuff, but there's entirely too much bad stuff."</p><p></p><p><img src="https://media2.giphy.com/media/3ELtfmA4Apkju/200.gif" alt="Happy Excuse Me GIF" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="width: 206px" /></p><p></p><p>I mean, I consider myself pretty far out there on the social left in most ways, and absolutely can criticise D&D and really most fantasy games (video, TT or otherwise) for some recurrent tropes which are not great (and are indeed reflective of arguably colonialist attitudes), but goddamn son. Hoooooooo. It seems reading between the lines of a few posts LaTorra has made, the only reason DW hasn't been pulled is that Adam Koebel wouldn't agree to it (perhaps not unreasonably!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9311889, member: 18"] That's literally something the book suggests as a viable possibility and that was part of the Kickstarter campaign! Saying people doing that are "missing the whole point" is thus supporting my point re: the general (perhaps subconscious) hostility of PtbA/FitD players to anyone not using every single rule in an extremely prescriptive way, despite you just saying "Well you don't have to use all the rules, obviously!" (and seemingly believing it!). I don't think they are missing the "whole point" at all - in fact, I think people who can only see utilizing every rule prescriptively aren't really comprehending how DW was constructed or how flexibly it can be used, and are stuck in outdated mindset where PtbA/FitD are to be defend from hostile hordes of rules-skimming barbarians. Even using D&D adventures and the like, It's still a fundamentally different approach to B/X or similar, too, the mindset has to be very different to use Moves and so on. A viable and non-hostile rephrasing of a similar sentiment might be that they're "missing out of some of the most interesting and exciting things DW can do" - but when you dismiss such people as "missing the whole point", well, you make my point for me. And also no, that's not at all what he was saying re: a Dungeon World 2. He was specifically attacking D&D's colonialist undertones/subtext (something I've noted before but pretty much everyone seems uncomfortable discussing) and basically saying D&D (including 5E) was [I]very nasty[/I] game that he no longer felt like was worth emulating. Stuff like killing things and taking their loot? He wanted no more of that - that was one of his specific examples of a thing he'd drop. I can't find the original detailed discussion where he laid out his ideas but he does say in a still-available Tweet: [MEDIA=twitter]1270909681033084928[/MEDIA] "DW is at best a reflection of where I was as an ally 10 years ago, and even then it has a lot of things that are entirely racist, sexist, or ableist and which I did not notice." Which like, not really sure that's true buddy re: "entirely racist, sexist or ableist" - I'm struggling to even thing of anything even arguably sexist in DW - maybe some kind of of monster? I tried to see if anyone had any examples but they didn't - not even LaTorra himself. The racism seems to boil down to "the game has 'evil races' in it", which like, sure but I think when you stretch that to "entirely racist", rather than say "unfortunately reflective of frequently-racist tropes or something" you're perhaps getting a little self-indulgent in a strange way. Also this: "The thing that I had honestly never even considered from my privileged POV: why is DW still in my profile? [B]Or up for sale?[/B] When I think of it I think of the good stuff, but there's entirely too much bad stuff." [IMG width="206px" alt="Happy Excuse Me GIF"]https://media2.giphy.com/media/3ELtfmA4Apkju/200.gif[/IMG] I mean, I consider myself pretty far out there on the social left in most ways, and absolutely can criticise D&D and really most fantasy games (video, TT or otherwise) for some recurrent tropes which are not great (and are indeed reflective of arguably colonialist attitudes), but goddamn son. Hoooooooo. It seems reading between the lines of a few posts LaTorra has made, the only reason DW hasn't been pulled is that Adam Koebel wouldn't agree to it (perhaps not unreasonably!). [/QUOTE]
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