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Green Ronin not signing GSL (Forked Thread: Doing the GSL. Who?)
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4384320" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Indeed.</p><p></p><p>(1) On Filling Holes: The first case I can think of is the excellent Tome of Horrors (Necromancer Games). They supplied a group of earlier edition monsters. They discussed the project with WotC and selected monsters that they were told would not be coming out officially. Of course, not so much later on, WotC did release official versions of quite a few of those monsters.</p><p></p><p>3pp saw a hole in terms of environment books, and Fantasy Flight Games created a very nice series thereof. Others, such as Monkey God, created specific environment books. WotC then created a competing series of official books that filled in the same niche. For my money, the 3pp books were almost always clearly superior, came first, and always had OGC that could be used by others as well.</p><p></p><p>Almost everyone I know who has bought alternate rules based off the OGL/SRD has also bought the PHB, DMG, and MM. Moreover, they have bought alternate rules specifically to port things into their D&D campaigns. So, IME, these products suppliment, rather than compete with, WotC's products.</p><p></p><p>If WotC is concerned about a book like <em>Frost and Fur</em> competing with <em>Frostburn</em>, it is only because the former is a far more useful book, coming from a far more friendly company.</p><p></p><p>(2) OGL/GSL: In the heady days when 3e came out under the OGL, WotC was a very friendly company. Indeed, I suspect that the creators of the OGL worded it so as to be as much of an estoppal to something like the GSL as was possible, because it didn't take a genius to see that WotC would eventually want to take the game back.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, I imagine that what really took the GSL so long to appear was apprehension at the reaction it would cause. After all, why else claim initially that 4e would be OGL? Why else try to get the big 3pp "on board" before they could see the GSL? Why else try to make the big 3pp <em>invest in</em> the GSL before they could see it ($5,000)?</p><p></p><p>The combination of these factors points to an obvious conclusion -- WotC correctly assumed that people would be displeased by the GSL, and wanted 3pp support in place prior to the GSL being seen to help mollify that displeasure. Of course, they didn't want those 3pp to see the GSL right away, either, because they knew (or should have known) that it would be rational for them to be displeased as well.</p><p></p><p>And that ploy worked -- Necromancer Games and others began planning a 4e product line before seeing the GSL, and are now invested in 4e enough that their simply dropping those lines because of the terms of the GSL is probably unfeasable. And, largely because of that support, there are people defending WotC's adoption of the GSL as okay.</p><p></p><p>Well, it's legal. And it's (perhaps) ethical. But it isn't friendly, it isn't good for the customer, it isn't good for 3pps, and it isn't (in my book) okay.</p><p></p><p>In conclusion, what 3pp did under the OGL was <em>fix things that needed fixing</em>, which (for some reason) WotC was unwilling to do itself. 4e has as much, if not more, that needs fixing. Without the vast resource that 3pp provide, in terms of different viewpoints and ideas, I very much doubt that these problems are going to be fixed as well as they were in 3e.</p><p></p><p>I support GR's decision, and I hope (though I don't expect) that, given enough pressure, WotC will drop the GSL and release 4e under the OGL, as we were initially told it would be.</p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4384320, member: 18280"] Indeed. (1) On Filling Holes: The first case I can think of is the excellent Tome of Horrors (Necromancer Games). They supplied a group of earlier edition monsters. They discussed the project with WotC and selected monsters that they were told would not be coming out officially. Of course, not so much later on, WotC did release official versions of quite a few of those monsters. 3pp saw a hole in terms of environment books, and Fantasy Flight Games created a very nice series thereof. Others, such as Monkey God, created specific environment books. WotC then created a competing series of official books that filled in the same niche. For my money, the 3pp books were almost always clearly superior, came first, and always had OGC that could be used by others as well. Almost everyone I know who has bought alternate rules based off the OGL/SRD has also bought the PHB, DMG, and MM. Moreover, they have bought alternate rules specifically to port things into their D&D campaigns. So, IME, these products suppliment, rather than compete with, WotC's products. If WotC is concerned about a book like [i]Frost and Fur[/i] competing with [i]Frostburn[/i], it is only because the former is a far more useful book, coming from a far more friendly company. (2) OGL/GSL: In the heady days when 3e came out under the OGL, WotC was a very friendly company. Indeed, I suspect that the creators of the OGL worded it so as to be as much of an estoppal to something like the GSL as was possible, because it didn't take a genius to see that WotC would eventually want to take the game back. Moreover, I imagine that what really took the GSL so long to appear was apprehension at the reaction it would cause. After all, why else claim initially that 4e would be OGL? Why else try to get the big 3pp "on board" before they could see the GSL? Why else try to make the big 3pp [i]invest in[/i] the GSL before they could see it ($5,000)? The combination of these factors points to an obvious conclusion -- WotC correctly assumed that people would be displeased by the GSL, and wanted 3pp support in place prior to the GSL being seen to help mollify that displeasure. Of course, they didn't want those 3pp to see the GSL right away, either, because they knew (or should have known) that it would be rational for them to be displeased as well. And that ploy worked -- Necromancer Games and others began planning a 4e product line before seeing the GSL, and are now invested in 4e enough that their simply dropping those lines because of the terms of the GSL is probably unfeasable. And, largely because of that support, there are people defending WotC's adoption of the GSL as okay. Well, it's legal. And it's (perhaps) ethical. But it isn't friendly, it isn't good for the customer, it isn't good for 3pps, and it isn't (in my book) okay. In conclusion, what 3pp did under the OGL was [i]fix things that needed fixing[/i], which (for some reason) WotC was unwilling to do itself. 4e has as much, if not more, that needs fixing. Without the vast resource that 3pp provide, in terms of different viewpoints and ideas, I very much doubt that these problems are going to be fixed as well as they were in 3e. I support GR's decision, and I hope (though I don't expect) that, given enough pressure, WotC will drop the GSL and release 4e under the OGL, as we were initially told it would be. RC [/QUOTE]
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