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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5178464" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Well, it appears that Grind is alive and well in 4E with less than 40% of respondents not really experiencing Grind anymore, but with over 60% still experiencing it, at least on occasion.</p><p></p><p>27.8% never experience Grind</p><p>11.4% used to experience Grind</p><p>35.4% sometimes experience Grind</p><p>25.3% often experience Grind</p><p></p><p></p><p>With regard to the perception of the respondents to their fellow players, it appears that Grind is slightly more prevalent. Often and never are actually tied at the moment here.</p><p></p><p>21.5% never experience Grind</p><p>15.2% used to experience Grind</p><p>41.8% sometimes experience Grind</p><p>21.5% often experience Grind</p><p></p><p></p><p>With only 1 in 4 never experiencing it and only 2 in 5 total not experiencing it now that the community at large is taking steps to avoid it, it seems likely that Grind is at least partially mechanically inherent to the rule system itself. It seems unlikely that over 60% of the community "are just playing wrong".</p><p></p><p>If I were to theorize, I would conclude that the grind is basically exacerbated by four basic things: a) the high number of monster hit points; b) the increased bookkeeping based on the large numbers of conditions, states, forced movement, and interrupts that PCs and NPCs can impose on their foes; c) the more complex duration rules where conditions and effects have a wide variance on when they expire; and d) slower players for whatever reason (non-attentive, overwhelmed by options, busy telling jokes, whatever).</p><p></p><p>I further opine that the high number of hit points of monsters has been partially alleviated by the introduction of splat books and easy access to Internet discussions and optimizations of builds, where PCs are considerably more effective than they were with the core rules, hence, they are more efficient at defeating foes than with just the core rules. The high number of hit points can be more easily whittled through then they used to be and would be one reason as to why a significant percentage of respondents and their fellow gamers no longer experience Grind (i.e. their combats are faster because their PCs are more efficient).</p><p></p><p>It's also likely that DMs are putting more effort into purposely making their encounters less grindy with specific encounter design ideas (such as Stalker0's Guide to Anti-Grind suggestions, having fewer stun, insubstantial, and weakening encounters) and with specific table rules ideas (in order to more quickly handle conditions, their durations, and the occasional slow player).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5178464, member: 2011"] Well, it appears that Grind is alive and well in 4E with less than 40% of respondents not really experiencing Grind anymore, but with over 60% still experiencing it, at least on occasion. 27.8% never experience Grind 11.4% used to experience Grind 35.4% sometimes experience Grind 25.3% often experience Grind With regard to the perception of the respondents to their fellow players, it appears that Grind is slightly more prevalent. Often and never are actually tied at the moment here. 21.5% never experience Grind 15.2% used to experience Grind 41.8% sometimes experience Grind 21.5% often experience Grind With only 1 in 4 never experiencing it and only 2 in 5 total not experiencing it now that the community at large is taking steps to avoid it, it seems likely that Grind is at least partially mechanically inherent to the rule system itself. It seems unlikely that over 60% of the community "are just playing wrong". If I were to theorize, I would conclude that the grind is basically exacerbated by four basic things: a) the high number of monster hit points; b) the increased bookkeeping based on the large numbers of conditions, states, forced movement, and interrupts that PCs and NPCs can impose on their foes; c) the more complex duration rules where conditions and effects have a wide variance on when they expire; and d) slower players for whatever reason (non-attentive, overwhelmed by options, busy telling jokes, whatever). I further opine that the high number of hit points of monsters has been partially alleviated by the introduction of splat books and easy access to Internet discussions and optimizations of builds, where PCs are considerably more effective than they were with the core rules, hence, they are more efficient at defeating foes than with just the core rules. The high number of hit points can be more easily whittled through then they used to be and would be one reason as to why a significant percentage of respondents and their fellow gamers no longer experience Grind (i.e. their combats are faster because their PCs are more efficient). It's also likely that DMs are putting more effort into purposely making their encounters less grindy with specific encounter design ideas (such as Stalker0's Guide to Anti-Grind suggestions, having fewer stun, insubstantial, and weakening encounters) and with specific table rules ideas (in order to more quickly handle conditions, their durations, and the occasional slow player). [/QUOTE]
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