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<blockquote data-quote="Derro" data-source="post: 4083520" data-attributes="member: 51010"><p>Well put. </p><p></p><p>There's also an element of consequences in grittier gaming that is lacking with what we've seen of 4e. It surprises me somewhat that the Bloodied condition is only a trigger for other special effects. You'd think it would inflict fatigue or something.</p><p></p><p>I think some manner of wound track a la SWSE would bring the grit into finer focus.</p><p></p><p>One of the problems with hit points is that it has always been a very binary system. You're up and fighting or you're down and dying. Not gritty. There are variations, 3.x disabled and Diehard come to mind, but the results are pretty much the same.</p><p></p><p>The abundance of magic at low levels detracts from the grit as well. Not so much that it is there but more that it is there without cost or consequence. The at will/encounter/daily set up is fine for high magic heroics. But it's the default rather than a setting on a scale and it can't do some types of gaming without surgery. Up until now D&D could do that with only a little snip rather than surgery.</p><p></p><p>And I'm not saying that the system is bad but it does reflect on of the worst qualities of the previous magic system and that is the absolute dependability of the power. Which tends to turn spell-casters into mobile weapons platforms and med-evac units. Not gritty. </p><p></p><p>I saw two interesting suggestions here re: magic. One was to remove the magic using classes and the other too cross train with the appropriate feats. That sounds intriguing, particularly if you combined the ideas.</p><p></p><p>It vexes me that with the tiered approach they have taken to advancement they started so far up the ladder. I think that speaks very strongly as what the target market is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Derro, post: 4083520, member: 51010"] Well put. There's also an element of consequences in grittier gaming that is lacking with what we've seen of 4e. It surprises me somewhat that the Bloodied condition is only a trigger for other special effects. You'd think it would inflict fatigue or something. I think some manner of wound track a la SWSE would bring the grit into finer focus. One of the problems with hit points is that it has always been a very binary system. You're up and fighting or you're down and dying. Not gritty. There are variations, 3.x disabled and Diehard come to mind, but the results are pretty much the same. The abundance of magic at low levels detracts from the grit as well. Not so much that it is there but more that it is there without cost or consequence. The at will/encounter/daily set up is fine for high magic heroics. But it's the default rather than a setting on a scale and it can't do some types of gaming without surgery. Up until now D&D could do that with only a little snip rather than surgery. And I'm not saying that the system is bad but it does reflect on of the worst qualities of the previous magic system and that is the absolute dependability of the power. Which tends to turn spell-casters into mobile weapons platforms and med-evac units. Not gritty. I saw two interesting suggestions here re: magic. One was to remove the magic using classes and the other too cross train with the appropriate feats. That sounds intriguing, particularly if you combined the ideas. It vexes me that with the tiered approach they have taken to advancement they started so far up the ladder. I think that speaks very strongly as what the target market is. [/QUOTE]
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