Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Gunpowder, fantasy and you
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="SKyOdin" data-source="post: 5390439" data-attributes="member: 57939"><p>Honestly Wolf1066, that logic reflects a pretty naive understanding of how technology changed the world. Nothing you described would have any use or significant impact on a society, let alone be enough to trigger an magic-industrial revolution. The problems with your arguments are the same as those made by numerous other people: they mistake the ability to emulate certain kinds of technology we are familiar with today with to be the same thing as being able to change the world. The difference between these magical tricks and an actual industrial revolution is in efficiency, economics, and far-reaching impact.</p><p></p><p>The first issue is that continual light would do very little to change the world. Being able to work long hours thanks to light was hardly one of the major benefits of the industrial revolution. Remember, the industrial revolution was lit by gas-lamps, which are just a slight evolution from a technology that has existed forever. The main change was the cost of the source of energy. On the other hand, a continual flame spell of everburning torch is a comparatively expensive source of light. In both 3E and 4E, it costs a minimum of 50 gold, compared to one copper for a candle. Besides, increasing the length of time you can run a mill is pretty pointless if you can't grow more crops to fill it with. Making the mill a water-mill would have a greater impact on its productivity than letting it run all night.</p><p></p><p>As for the flying mount issue, griffons are expensive. In 3E, the cost of a baby, yet to be trained griffon was 7,000 gold pieces, equivalent to an entire herd of horses. I don't think I have yet seen a price for a trained griffon in 3E or 4E, but it would be very expensive. At that kind of price, you might see one or two in the hands of royalty, but it wouldn't be economically feasible to field them in large numbers. Besides, castles are designed to kill things in their courtyards, so flying a handful of soldiers over the outer wall isn't likely to change the tide of battle.</p><p></p><p>Let me point out the importance of efficiency. Song dynasty China was one of the most advanced and wealthiest civilizations in the pre-industrial world. The Song were producing a quantity of steel every year that wouldn't be matched until the industrial revolution. Yet, they used human labor to haul barges up their canal network. It turns out that it was cheaper to hire human labor than it was to use donkeys or horses for the task. In short, the cheapest solution is the one that catches on.</p><p></p><p>Unless magic can do something for cheaper than mundane means, it won't see wide-scale use.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SKyOdin, post: 5390439, member: 57939"] Honestly Wolf1066, that logic reflects a pretty naive understanding of how technology changed the world. Nothing you described would have any use or significant impact on a society, let alone be enough to trigger an magic-industrial revolution. The problems with your arguments are the same as those made by numerous other people: they mistake the ability to emulate certain kinds of technology we are familiar with today with to be the same thing as being able to change the world. The difference between these magical tricks and an actual industrial revolution is in efficiency, economics, and far-reaching impact. The first issue is that continual light would do very little to change the world. Being able to work long hours thanks to light was hardly one of the major benefits of the industrial revolution. Remember, the industrial revolution was lit by gas-lamps, which are just a slight evolution from a technology that has existed forever. The main change was the cost of the source of energy. On the other hand, a continual flame spell of everburning torch is a comparatively expensive source of light. In both 3E and 4E, it costs a minimum of 50 gold, compared to one copper for a candle. Besides, increasing the length of time you can run a mill is pretty pointless if you can't grow more crops to fill it with. Making the mill a water-mill would have a greater impact on its productivity than letting it run all night. As for the flying mount issue, griffons are expensive. In 3E, the cost of a baby, yet to be trained griffon was 7,000 gold pieces, equivalent to an entire herd of horses. I don't think I have yet seen a price for a trained griffon in 3E or 4E, but it would be very expensive. At that kind of price, you might see one or two in the hands of royalty, but it wouldn't be economically feasible to field them in large numbers. Besides, castles are designed to kill things in their courtyards, so flying a handful of soldiers over the outer wall isn't likely to change the tide of battle. Let me point out the importance of efficiency. Song dynasty China was one of the most advanced and wealthiest civilizations in the pre-industrial world. The Song were producing a quantity of steel every year that wouldn't be matched until the industrial revolution. Yet, they used human labor to haul barges up their canal network. It turns out that it was cheaper to hire human labor than it was to use donkeys or horses for the task. In short, the cheapest solution is the one that catches on. Unless magic can do something for cheaper than mundane means, it won't see wide-scale use. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Gunpowder, fantasy and you
Top