Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
GWM, SS, CEx: updated!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7245903" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Okay, rewriting this to match improved estimates: most importantly including a caster. Best estimates* for a 30 round day (11th level chars) so far are -</p><p></p><p><strong>Wizard</strong>: 20 Int, Evocation, Fire Bolt, Levitate, Fireball, Wall of Force = ~1,700/d aka "the bar"</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter</strong>: GWM, 20 Str, GWF, Precision, G.Sword = ~1,400/d Bless +200</p><p>without GWM = ~1,000/d Bless +100</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter</strong>: SS/CEx, 18 Dex, Archery, Precision, H.Xbox = ~1,200/d Bless +200</p><p>without SS/CEx = ~800/d Bless +100</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter/Rogue</strong>: Sentinel, Shield Master, 18 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Booming Blade, Rapier = 1,200/d Bless +100</p><p>without Sentinel and Shield Master = ~800/d Bless +100</p><p></p><p><strong>Ranger</strong>: SS, 18 Dex, Archery, Beast Master, Longbow = ~1,000/d Bless +100</p><p>without SS = ~800/d</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter</strong>: SM, 20 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Longsword = ~1,100/d Bless +100</p><p>without SM = ~900/d</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter</strong>: Sentinel, 20 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Rapier = 1000/d</p><p>without Sentinel = ~900/d</p><p></p><p>Elsewhere I argue that range is worth about a +30% damage adjustment. So for me, these numbers justify the following feat tweaks...</p><p></p><p></p><p>No longer amplifies SS (see below). Retains penalty on ranged attacks in melee <em>except</em> where the ranged attacker makes a melee attack first. That meets the simple goal that "<em>melee weapons are best in melee</em>". The wording here specifically helps out a few fun archetypes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I estimate** that Savage Attacker adds +100 damage to straight Fighter duelist. The Shield Master version is then on ~1,200/d. With the defensive benefit, that puts this feat much closer to the value of SS and GWM. It adds a bit more with Sneak Attack, helping out Rogues.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This change pushes the best ranged over to Longbow instead of Hand Crossbow. And I think Longbows <em>should</em> do more ranged damage than Hand Crossbows! With this change, Longbow does about 1100/d with SS, +100 with Bless. That puts them nearly exactly where I think they should be relative to GWM, with Dueling still needing a buff in the order of +20%. This tweak also helps out single/few-attack classes like Ranger and Rogue (because for them, SS is <em>unchanged</em>!)</p><p></p><p>Why no nerf to GWM? I think the estimates speak for themselves: it looks about where it should be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>*I round to nearest 100 to represent level of estimating accuracy.</em></p><p><em>**Using Excel, to Monte Carlo it.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7245903, member: 71699"] Okay, rewriting this to match improved estimates: most importantly including a caster. Best estimates* for a 30 round day (11th level chars) so far are - [B]Wizard[/B]: 20 Int, Evocation, Fire Bolt, Levitate, Fireball, Wall of Force = ~1,700/d aka "the bar" [B]Fighter[/B]: GWM, 20 Str, GWF, Precision, G.Sword = ~1,400/d Bless +200 without GWM = ~1,000/d Bless +100 [B]Fighter[/B]: SS/CEx, 18 Dex, Archery, Precision, H.Xbox = ~1,200/d Bless +200 without SS/CEx = ~800/d Bless +100 [B]Fighter/Rogue[/B]: Sentinel, Shield Master, 18 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Booming Blade, Rapier = 1,200/d Bless +100 without Sentinel and Shield Master = ~800/d Bless +100 [B]Ranger[/B]: SS, 18 Dex, Archery, Beast Master, Longbow = ~1,000/d Bless +100 without SS = ~800/d [B]Fighter[/B]: SM, 20 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Longsword = ~1,100/d Bless +100 without SM = ~900/d [B]Fighter[/B]: Sentinel, 20 Dex, Dueling, Precision, Rapier = 1000/d without Sentinel = ~900/d Elsewhere I argue that range is worth about a +30% damage adjustment. So for me, these numbers justify the following feat tweaks... No longer amplifies SS (see below). Retains penalty on ranged attacks in melee [I]except[/I] where the ranged attacker makes a melee attack first. That meets the simple goal that "[I]melee weapons are best in melee[/I]". The wording here specifically helps out a few fun archetypes. I estimate** that Savage Attacker adds +100 damage to straight Fighter duelist. The Shield Master version is then on ~1,200/d. With the defensive benefit, that puts this feat much closer to the value of SS and GWM. It adds a bit more with Sneak Attack, helping out Rogues. This change pushes the best ranged over to Longbow instead of Hand Crossbow. And I think Longbows [I]should[/I] do more ranged damage than Hand Crossbows! With this change, Longbow does about 1100/d with SS, +100 with Bless. That puts them nearly exactly where I think they should be relative to GWM, with Dueling still needing a buff in the order of +20%. This tweak also helps out single/few-attack classes like Ranger and Rogue (because for them, SS is [I]unchanged[/I]!) Why no nerf to GWM? I think the estimates speak for themselves: it looks about where it should be. [I]*I round to nearest 100 to represent level of estimating accuracy.[/I] [I]**Using Excel, to Monte Carlo it.[/I] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
GWM, SS, CEx: updated!
Top