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Gygax on Realism in Game Design
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6011454" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>From the Meta thread:</p><p></p><p>Can I ask on what basis you consider that his words are being taken out of context to support things he wouldn't have supported? You certainly don't appear to have shown this. And what I now believe Gygax thought after reading his writings and listening to people who gamed with him explain the purpose of certain rules is very different from what I believed three years ago. I do not believe he's being taken out of context and would be fascinated to find evidence he was.</p><p> </p><p> <acronym>Really? Because neither 2e nor 3e look much like Gygaxian D&D to me. Gygaxian D&D (whether white box or 1e) is a pretty well balanced game about the exploration of dungeons. D&D versions after Lorraine Williams hijacked TSR first deprecated then eliminated the most fundamental rule of the game. You gain XP in D&D for getting Gold Pieces. Your job is to explore the dungeon and carry off the loot and the game rewards this. You don't get much reward for killing monsters. 2e is an attempt to take D&D rules and make the game about something other than Dungeons and the dragons who live there.</p><p></p><p>2e and 3e only look passable if you are comparing rule for rule rather than goal for goal. They are IMO about as passable as playing soccer on a rugby pitch using a rugby ball (or an American Football ball).</p><p></p><p>Ironically, 4e looks at the playstyle 2e and 3e tried to replace Gygaxian D&D with and says "What if we had a system designed to do this?" And it therefore fits a lot of material written for 2e and 3e (or even 1e starting with the Dragonlance Saga - and just about every single Pathfinder AP I've looked at) much better than the original rules do. It, however, is a poor fit for dungeoncrawling - but most of the dungeoncrawling mechanics were removed edition by edition.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6011454, member: 87792"] From the Meta thread: Can I ask on what basis you consider that his words are being taken out of context to support things he wouldn't have supported? You certainly don't appear to have shown this. And what I now believe Gygax thought after reading his writings and listening to people who gamed with him explain the purpose of certain rules is very different from what I believed three years ago. I do not believe he's being taken out of context and would be fascinated to find evidence he was. <acronym>Really? Because neither 2e nor 3e look much like Gygaxian D&D to me. Gygaxian D&D (whether white box or 1e) is a pretty well balanced game about the exploration of dungeons. D&D versions after Lorraine Williams hijacked TSR first deprecated then eliminated the most fundamental rule of the game. You gain XP in D&D for getting Gold Pieces. Your job is to explore the dungeon and carry off the loot and the game rewards this. You don't get much reward for killing monsters. 2e is an attempt to take D&D rules and make the game about something other than Dungeons and the dragons who live there. 2e and 3e only look passable if you are comparing rule for rule rather than goal for goal. They are IMO about as passable as playing soccer on a rugby pitch using a rugby ball (or an American Football ball). Ironically, 4e looks at the playstyle 2e and 3e tried to replace Gygaxian D&D with and says "What if we had a system designed to do this?" And it therefore fits a lot of material written for 2e and 3e (or even 1e starting with the Dragonlance Saga - and just about every single Pathfinder AP I've looked at) much better than the original rules do. It, however, is a poor fit for dungeoncrawling - but most of the dungeoncrawling mechanics were removed edition by edition. [/QUOTE]
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