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Have you experienced very high-level (18+) play in 5e? Tell me about it!
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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6978244" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>I'll toss in my experience, though the highest level we've reached is 16 and 11.</p><p></p><p><strong>1. What was the party composition? </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>1st group was 16th level: Wizard Evoker, Paladin Vengeance, Bard Lore, Cleric Life, Fighter Battlemaster. This was a group with no multiclassing, but feats allowed. Our first 5E run before we knew the game well. No Sharpshooter</p><p></p><p>2nd group was 11th level: Lots of multiclassing. Paladin Vengeance/Wizard Bladesginer, Paladin Vengeance/Warlock Fiend/Sorcerer Infernal (House rule archetype), Ranger Deep Hunter/Fighter Eldritch Knight, Cleric Death, Sorcerer Shadow, Paladin Vengeance/Fighter. Everything allowed and then some.</p><p></p><p><strong>2. What did you fight?</strong> </p><p></p><p>1st group: Lots of Dragons. Ancient Green, Tiamat partial avatar. </p><p></p><p>2nd group: Balor, Marilith, lots of demons.</p><p></p><p><strong>3. How did the fight go? Did you enjoy it? Was it too easy or too hard?</strong></p><p></p><p>1st group: Game was challenging and fun up to about level 8 or 9. It started to get easier and easier after that. Dragons became a joke mainly because they lack the ability to defeat battlefield control spells fast enough to threaten anyone. Our Lore Bard picked up spells like <em>bless</em> and <em>fly</em>. We would often buff up and have the bard stand far away from the battle to keep the buffs up. We didn't need the bard's damage and it ensured we didn't lose our mobility spells. So our hammers would fly and engage the dragon. The ability of a party to dish out damage far in excess of the monsters means we win any damage war between a solo dragon and a party.</p><p></p><p>2nd group: Pretty much like the first group except it started around level 3. The party loaded up with ranged attackers along with two high perception and stealth scouts. Demons and creatures periods aren't very good at spotting Expertise Stealthers and Perception experts before they spot them. So we would often know there was an enemy far in advance of the battle. Most demons don't have a means of ranged attacking, so a party with strong ranged attacks often gets a round or two of attacks before they close. When most monsters are pure melee without much stealth ability, the party can wait them out rather than vice versa. There are very few means to force a patient party into melee battle with creatures that lack ranged ability. </p><p></p><p>Ranged supremacy in 5E and the lack of ability to resist or control it makes a lot of the monsters weak against a party that can do things like hide in complete darkness with no penalty at very low level while wearing heavy armor. The warlock/paladin with devilsight which comes online at very low level is an extremely powerful class at nearly all levels.</p><p></p><p><strong>4. What would you change to make very high-level encounters better?</strong></p><p></p><p>1st group: We played the game out of the box until level 16 to get a feel for how it worked. No modifications. Fortunately we didn't have the ranged supremacy party going, so it was a bit more challenging and fun for longer. Once the higher level spells came online, then that shifted. You really only need one spell per battle, usually <em>bless</em> or <em>fly</em> for 50% or more of battles to win. Which means spellcasters don't use many resources per battle. The hardest fight we had was a flight of dragons around lvl 11. Concentrated fire from many breath weapons was tough to resist. </p><p></p><p>2nd group: I was the DM. I rewrote a bunch of monsters to counter their bread and butter abilities to force them to think outside the box and cause them pain. I added a lot of spell support to ruling demons. The first regular balor they fought, they killed very quickly. It barely had time to get any attacks off. It missed the majority of its attacks because the particular party we have, at least half can boost their AC into the mid 20s. It's kind of useless to throw a bunch of medium sized creatures at powerful parties, if they don't have spell support. I didn't want to add NPC casters to demon groups, so I added spells to mariliths and balors to empower their ability to empower the demon hordes they rule. I rebuilt all the demon lords into what I think they should be. I haven't test run the first demon lord, but that is coming shortly.</p><p></p><p>I'm starting to think a bit differently about 5E. I think I may start to set things up in a more cinematic fashion. After watching Chris Perkins and Matthew Mercer DM, I'm thinking 5E has far less of a mechanical focus and more of a cinematic focus. I may start building encounters more like I'm building story or movie/TV scenes with mechanics to fit the cinematic nature of the encounter to ensure it doesn't break down in a really stupid looking fashion in my mind's eye.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 6978244, member: 5834"] I'll toss in my experience, though the highest level we've reached is 16 and 11. [B]1. What was the party composition? [/B] 1st group was 16th level: Wizard Evoker, Paladin Vengeance, Bard Lore, Cleric Life, Fighter Battlemaster. This was a group with no multiclassing, but feats allowed. Our first 5E run before we knew the game well. No Sharpshooter 2nd group was 11th level: Lots of multiclassing. Paladin Vengeance/Wizard Bladesginer, Paladin Vengeance/Warlock Fiend/Sorcerer Infernal (House rule archetype), Ranger Deep Hunter/Fighter Eldritch Knight, Cleric Death, Sorcerer Shadow, Paladin Vengeance/Fighter. Everything allowed and then some. [B]2. What did you fight?[/B] 1st group: Lots of Dragons. Ancient Green, Tiamat partial avatar. 2nd group: Balor, Marilith, lots of demons. [B]3. How did the fight go? Did you enjoy it? Was it too easy or too hard?[/B] 1st group: Game was challenging and fun up to about level 8 or 9. It started to get easier and easier after that. Dragons became a joke mainly because they lack the ability to defeat battlefield control spells fast enough to threaten anyone. Our Lore Bard picked up spells like [i]bless[/i] and [i]fly[/i]. We would often buff up and have the bard stand far away from the battle to keep the buffs up. We didn't need the bard's damage and it ensured we didn't lose our mobility spells. So our hammers would fly and engage the dragon. The ability of a party to dish out damage far in excess of the monsters means we win any damage war between a solo dragon and a party. 2nd group: Pretty much like the first group except it started around level 3. The party loaded up with ranged attackers along with two high perception and stealth scouts. Demons and creatures periods aren't very good at spotting Expertise Stealthers and Perception experts before they spot them. So we would often know there was an enemy far in advance of the battle. Most demons don't have a means of ranged attacking, so a party with strong ranged attacks often gets a round or two of attacks before they close. When most monsters are pure melee without much stealth ability, the party can wait them out rather than vice versa. There are very few means to force a patient party into melee battle with creatures that lack ranged ability. Ranged supremacy in 5E and the lack of ability to resist or control it makes a lot of the monsters weak against a party that can do things like hide in complete darkness with no penalty at very low level while wearing heavy armor. The warlock/paladin with devilsight which comes online at very low level is an extremely powerful class at nearly all levels. [B]4. What would you change to make very high-level encounters better?[/B] 1st group: We played the game out of the box until level 16 to get a feel for how it worked. No modifications. Fortunately we didn't have the ranged supremacy party going, so it was a bit more challenging and fun for longer. Once the higher level spells came online, then that shifted. You really only need one spell per battle, usually [i]bless[/i] or [i]fly[/i] for 50% or more of battles to win. Which means spellcasters don't use many resources per battle. The hardest fight we had was a flight of dragons around lvl 11. Concentrated fire from many breath weapons was tough to resist. 2nd group: I was the DM. I rewrote a bunch of monsters to counter their bread and butter abilities to force them to think outside the box and cause them pain. I added a lot of spell support to ruling demons. The first regular balor they fought, they killed very quickly. It barely had time to get any attacks off. It missed the majority of its attacks because the particular party we have, at least half can boost their AC into the mid 20s. It's kind of useless to throw a bunch of medium sized creatures at powerful parties, if they don't have spell support. I didn't want to add NPC casters to demon groups, so I added spells to mariliths and balors to empower their ability to empower the demon hordes they rule. I rebuilt all the demon lords into what I think they should be. I haven't test run the first demon lord, but that is coming shortly. I'm starting to think a bit differently about 5E. I think I may start to set things up in a more cinematic fashion. After watching Chris Perkins and Matthew Mercer DM, I'm thinking 5E has far less of a mechanical focus and more of a cinematic focus. I may start building encounters more like I'm building story or movie/TV scenes with mechanics to fit the cinematic nature of the encounter to ensure it doesn't break down in a really stupid looking fashion in my mind's eye. [/QUOTE]
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