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Have you heard about the "Pathfinder Online Technology Demo" Kickstarter?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 5906901" data-attributes="member: 725"><p>Sure, there are folks that buy diamond encrusted iPhones, those folks might find the amount they pay for x 'worth' it. Worth is a very subjective thing, and imho the stuff they offer at the prices they ask is just to much imho. A PF 64 page booklet sets you back $13.99 for the pdf or $19.99 for the hardcopy and the pdf. Here they offer a 32 page pdf with 32 page promotional addendum for PFO for $15, if you want a printed copy and the pdf it's $50... That's bad value imho and especially compared to Paizo's own pdf/print products...</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not talking about trickery. If you want a PFO MMO, then you should support a kickstarter that's goal is to actually make the MMO and not some tech demo. Rewards should imho be related to the MMO, a pdf/printed book should be a bonus at level x, not be the 'main product' of the kickstarter (if you want that make a Kickstarter for that product). They announced PFO 6 months ago, should have been working at it for at least a while before that. But to date they don't have any footage to share, as far as I can see they haven't even started coding. How difficult is it to raise $50k for a tech demo for a company like Paizo (who is the founder/owner of Goblinworks)? I get the feeling folks that buy into this Kickstarter are taking a risk of a risk. They should already have the project specs and thus know what they need money wise to complete the project. Run it as a Kickstarter, list the bare bones amount (plus transaction and rewards costs) and let it be raised, or not. They pretty much stated that they don't expect to raise the cash for the MMO with Kickstarter, what makes you think investors will suddenly feel different from the fans?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, folks that think that PFO is a pathfinder computer game might want to dig into the FAQ on the Goblinworks website, a not often mentioned fact of PFO is that they won't be using the Pathfinder game system, they'll be using something else. The location of PFO will be in the River Kingdoms, but it'll be a very small section of the Echo Woods that has essentially never been documented. What they are doing is essentially taking a generic RPG MMO slapping the Pathfinder logo on it and using a couple of names of the PF setting, Whoopie! Maybe if your lucky they'll throw in a couple of PF specific monsters for you to fight using this mystery system....</p><p></p><p>The only thing they have is their reputation, vague idea of the MMO they want to make and a vague description of the Thornwood 'setting'. Honestly, how this ever got through the Kickstarter approval process is a great mystery to me.</p><p></p><p>Don't get me wrong I'm ever great full for Ryan for the OGL, but what's Ryan's experience with MMOs? Yeah, Eve Online at CCP, but he was their Chief Marketing Officer...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right.... There's a reason why I don't play EVE anymore (for the last 1.5-2 years), but I won't blame that on Ryan (alone).</p><p></p><p>Lisa is the Queen Goddess of Paizo and therefor Pathfinder, I'll always be great full for that, but... </p><p></p><p>Whoa! That sounds impressive, until you know that WotC was founded in 1990...</p><p></p><p>Mark worked on the WoD MMO, and I did find that the clothing tech demo was extremely impressive (don't know if he worked on that). But after 5+ years there's still no WoD MMO... I sure hope PFO gets released a lot quicker, but to be honest, after the last six months, I doubt it...</p><p></p><p>You know why Kickstarter projects like Double Fine, Wasteland 2, and Shadowrun Returns raised such incredible amounts? Because their primary backers had proven themselves (time and again) in the relevant branch.</p><p></p><p>Double Fine => Tim Schafer</p><p>Wasteland 2 => Brian Fargo</p><p>Shadowrun Returns => Jordan Weisman</p><p></p><p>If it was a kickstarter for a traditional pnp RPG, Lisa would have been the perfect spokes person, if it was a kickstarter for a new kind of Open Source licence for RPGs or something related, Ryan would be the perfect spokes person. As it stands, you don't let Ryan near a RPG property, an e-mail account, and for his own safety, near old-skool WoD or EVE fans... ;-)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cergorach, post: 5906901, member: 725"] Sure, there are folks that buy diamond encrusted iPhones, those folks might find the amount they pay for x 'worth' it. Worth is a very subjective thing, and imho the stuff they offer at the prices they ask is just to much imho. A PF 64 page booklet sets you back $13.99 for the pdf or $19.99 for the hardcopy and the pdf. Here they offer a 32 page pdf with 32 page promotional addendum for PFO for $15, if you want a printed copy and the pdf it's $50... That's bad value imho and especially compared to Paizo's own pdf/print products... I'm not talking about trickery. If you want a PFO MMO, then you should support a kickstarter that's goal is to actually make the MMO and not some tech demo. Rewards should imho be related to the MMO, a pdf/printed book should be a bonus at level x, not be the 'main product' of the kickstarter (if you want that make a Kickstarter for that product). They announced PFO 6 months ago, should have been working at it for at least a while before that. But to date they don't have any footage to share, as far as I can see they haven't even started coding. How difficult is it to raise $50k for a tech demo for a company like Paizo (who is the founder/owner of Goblinworks)? I get the feeling folks that buy into this Kickstarter are taking a risk of a risk. They should already have the project specs and thus know what they need money wise to complete the project. Run it as a Kickstarter, list the bare bones amount (plus transaction and rewards costs) and let it be raised, or not. They pretty much stated that they don't expect to raise the cash for the MMO with Kickstarter, what makes you think investors will suddenly feel different from the fans? Yeah, folks that think that PFO is a pathfinder computer game might want to dig into the FAQ on the Goblinworks website, a not often mentioned fact of PFO is that they won't be using the Pathfinder game system, they'll be using something else. The location of PFO will be in the River Kingdoms, but it'll be a very small section of the Echo Woods that has essentially never been documented. What they are doing is essentially taking a generic RPG MMO slapping the Pathfinder logo on it and using a couple of names of the PF setting, Whoopie! Maybe if your lucky they'll throw in a couple of PF specific monsters for you to fight using this mystery system.... The only thing they have is their reputation, vague idea of the MMO they want to make and a vague description of the Thornwood 'setting'. Honestly, how this ever got through the Kickstarter approval process is a great mystery to me. Don't get me wrong I'm ever great full for Ryan for the OGL, but what's Ryan's experience with MMOs? Yeah, Eve Online at CCP, but he was their Chief Marketing Officer... Right.... There's a reason why I don't play EVE anymore (for the last 1.5-2 years), but I won't blame that on Ryan (alone). Lisa is the Queen Goddess of Paizo and therefor Pathfinder, I'll always be great full for that, but... Whoa! That sounds impressive, until you know that WotC was founded in 1990... Mark worked on the WoD MMO, and I did find that the clothing tech demo was extremely impressive (don't know if he worked on that). But after 5+ years there's still no WoD MMO... I sure hope PFO gets released a lot quicker, but to be honest, after the last six months, I doubt it... You know why Kickstarter projects like Double Fine, Wasteland 2, and Shadowrun Returns raised such incredible amounts? Because their primary backers had proven themselves (time and again) in the relevant branch. Double Fine => Tim Schafer Wasteland 2 => Brian Fargo Shadowrun Returns => Jordan Weisman If it was a kickstarter for a traditional pnp RPG, Lisa would have been the perfect spokes person, if it was a kickstarter for a new kind of Open Source licence for RPGs or something related, Ryan would be the perfect spokes person. As it stands, you don't let Ryan near a RPG property, an e-mail account, and for his own safety, near old-skool WoD or EVE fans... ;-) [/QUOTE]
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