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Having trouble scaling encounters to make them challenging
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<blockquote data-quote="Friend of the Dork" data-source="post: 5740646" data-attributes="member: 91954"><p>To be honest, as long as the entire party has something to do and are equally challenged, there is no real problem. If so, "blindly" pumping stats works fine, the party generally won't know which level your NPCs are anyway. I can see the Summoner might be a bit of a problem, which of course will only be exacerbated in the following levels. A good choise might be to target the Summoner rather than his pet, as he should be much squishier. </p><p></p><p>Another way is to add confusion or misdirection - let the bad guy have more minions. Maybe even a handful of 1st level warriors could help out without actually increasing the CR of the encounter much - what if the summoner's pet charged one of them? It would essentially be overkill and a waste, allowing the BBEG to live still. Against this group lvl 4 rogues won't do much better anyway, and only 2 of them against 5 party members is a bit low. Having the rogues upped to 5-6th level helps a bit, and let them gulp down potions of invisibility (I'm assuming your party does not have See invis constantly) would allow them one sneak attack each before they get killed. </p><p></p><p>But does the party think it too easy, or is it just you? Remember this is not a contest but a cooperative game - the players should feel challenged, but having some combats go heavily in their favor is not too bad. In my game the 6 4th level PCs took down a 12th level dwarven Figher/Rogue/Shadowdancer/Assassin in just 2 rounds. Granted, he was alone, but I never expected him to go down that fast without hurting the party much. My players enjoyed it immensively though, and even the party's Druid managed to shine by successfully using Bardic music to Facinate the enemy. </p><p></p><p>Overall, it was fun, and that's what it's all about. Next time though I'm not about to let such a high-level foe be surrounded alone <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />. The one time my party actually was challenged it was simply by having a couple of 3rd level fighters maximized towards high str, 2-h weapon and Trip - some in my group thought it a bit too much (and I did make the mistake of allowing Greater Trip for a 3rd level NPCs), but it made the fight more exiting in my book. When they actually met the local "boss", the party actually fared much better thanks to luck. Minor things like initative can matter alot in a combat. </p><p></p><p>In a game I'm playing in right now out most challenging combat was against 6 NORMAL human zombies. We had 4 party members then, but these CR 1/2 enemies were rolling very high, and got several critical hits with their x4 weapons (Heavy Picks), dealing 4d6+16 damage against a level 2 party.... We barely won the combat with 2 combatants down, ALL our cleric healing expended, all my Lay on Hands expended except 1, and most of us heavily damaged. This game, and others based on d20 are very reliant on luck, and I'm sure your combat could have gone very different indeed if the rolls had been in favor of the enemies. </p><p></p><p>Although one more point: I don't know your bosses race, but I'm pretty sure a human 12th level Cleric would be far more dangerous than him, as racial HD are much much weaker than actual levels, especially when combined with spellcasters. So CR 10 might be more appropriate, depending on racial abilities (Ogre Mage HD would be much better than Bugbear HD). </p><p></p><p>Just think what a Harm spell doing 60-120 damage could do, combined with a quickened inflict light wounds... , or simply a Word of Recall after the cleric took too much damage. </p><p></p><p>Well, those are my thoughts anyway.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Friend of the Dork, post: 5740646, member: 91954"] To be honest, as long as the entire party has something to do and are equally challenged, there is no real problem. If so, "blindly" pumping stats works fine, the party generally won't know which level your NPCs are anyway. I can see the Summoner might be a bit of a problem, which of course will only be exacerbated in the following levels. A good choise might be to target the Summoner rather than his pet, as he should be much squishier. Another way is to add confusion or misdirection - let the bad guy have more minions. Maybe even a handful of 1st level warriors could help out without actually increasing the CR of the encounter much - what if the summoner's pet charged one of them? It would essentially be overkill and a waste, allowing the BBEG to live still. Against this group lvl 4 rogues won't do much better anyway, and only 2 of them against 5 party members is a bit low. Having the rogues upped to 5-6th level helps a bit, and let them gulp down potions of invisibility (I'm assuming your party does not have See invis constantly) would allow them one sneak attack each before they get killed. But does the party think it too easy, or is it just you? Remember this is not a contest but a cooperative game - the players should feel challenged, but having some combats go heavily in their favor is not too bad. In my game the 6 4th level PCs took down a 12th level dwarven Figher/Rogue/Shadowdancer/Assassin in just 2 rounds. Granted, he was alone, but I never expected him to go down that fast without hurting the party much. My players enjoyed it immensively though, and even the party's Druid managed to shine by successfully using Bardic music to Facinate the enemy. Overall, it was fun, and that's what it's all about. Next time though I'm not about to let such a high-level foe be surrounded alone ;). The one time my party actually was challenged it was simply by having a couple of 3rd level fighters maximized towards high str, 2-h weapon and Trip - some in my group thought it a bit too much (and I did make the mistake of allowing Greater Trip for a 3rd level NPCs), but it made the fight more exiting in my book. When they actually met the local "boss", the party actually fared much better thanks to luck. Minor things like initative can matter alot in a combat. In a game I'm playing in right now out most challenging combat was against 6 NORMAL human zombies. We had 4 party members then, but these CR 1/2 enemies were rolling very high, and got several critical hits with their x4 weapons (Heavy Picks), dealing 4d6+16 damage against a level 2 party.... We barely won the combat with 2 combatants down, ALL our cleric healing expended, all my Lay on Hands expended except 1, and most of us heavily damaged. This game, and others based on d20 are very reliant on luck, and I'm sure your combat could have gone very different indeed if the rolls had been in favor of the enemies. Although one more point: I don't know your bosses race, but I'm pretty sure a human 12th level Cleric would be far more dangerous than him, as racial HD are much much weaker than actual levels, especially when combined with spellcasters. So CR 10 might be more appropriate, depending on racial abilities (Ogre Mage HD would be much better than Bugbear HD). Just think what a Harm spell doing 60-120 damage could do, combined with a quickened inflict light wounds... , or simply a Word of Recall after the cleric took too much damage. Well, those are my thoughts anyway. [/QUOTE]
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Having trouble scaling encounters to make them challenging
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