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Having trouble scaling encounters to make them challenging
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<blockquote data-quote="EUBanana" data-source="post: 5740767" data-attributes="member: 6676815"><p>If you want to put the pressure on pounce, which seemed to do a lot of damage, then use some reach weapons. If his bodyguards had long spears, combat reflexes and improved trip, the melee would be battling quite hard to get up to him, and that includes flying melee if the guy with the pike is right next to the target. If the cleric is himself enlarged he may well get an AoO before the melee guy gets in range, and break the charge with a trip. Which wouldnt be too hard if he's fully buffed, see below. Fly and death from above are really pretty trivial to stop, just have them fight indoors. I think almost all of our fights tend to be indoors anyway, and dungeons are traditional after all.</p><p> </p><p>I'm curious what his AC was if he was taking damage from wolverines of all things. If he was fully buffed then he has to have had an AC of, say, 24 (buckler +2, breastplate +2, dex 14, dodge feat. Before any real buffs, thats with magic vestment +2s. A wolverine would be needing, what, 19+ at the very best? You can pretty much ignore summoned critters that much weaker than you. If you wanted to give him more on the cheap, heavy armour proficiency and banded mail, AC 27 then before magic items and short duration buffs. Even the eidolon isn't going to hit that easily without death from above, which he will only get if you as a DM allow it, essentially. Cruel DMs can add potions of barkskin as required for another couple of points, each point becomes all important as the target number approaches 20.</p><p></p><p>Fully buffed, well. For a 10th level cleric that could be the kitchen sink. At a bare minimum I would assume that is a summoned critter (lantern archon, hound archon, babau), divine favor, bless, bulls strength, owls wisdom and prayer timed to go off in the first round, when the PCs are just starting to deploy. If you're really going for it though, then theres righteous might which gives DR - very useful against huge numbers of attacks coming in, and reach, and more strength, masses of summoning for things to get in the way and spam their 'at wills', aid on everybody cast by the aforementioned hound archon, silence cast on one of his minions to charge and disrupt bards and spellcasters when battle is joined...</p><p></p><p>So it's gonna be more like...</p><p></p><p>Summoner buffs eidolon, if he's lucky and the babau in the shadows doesn't counterspell him, eidolon runs into flying lantern archon because its in the way, kills it presumably as its runty, but still has to make save for archon aura from the nearby hound archon. As does everybody else.</p><p>Fighter charges, kills a pleb, thats his job.</p><p>Bad guy casts prayer, all PCs get weaker by a level, all bad guys get better by a level effectively</p><p>Bard sings, summons a wolverine which can't actually do anything to the big bad, and theres that silence spell out there maybe.</p><p>Ranger shoots, does some damage, but surely not that much because bad guys are in the way and with prayer and cover the bad guys AC is now 32</p><p>Oracle twiddles his thumbs</p><p>Minion engages fighter</p><p>Cleric goes to dismiss eidolon with Dismissal, DC is gonna be 19 at a conservative estimate (wisdom 16 + 4 with owls wisdom) and as this is presumably a quadruped if it has pounce, its will save is a base of +2, and he's debuffed with a prayer, unlucky</p><p>Summoner summons 4 wolverines, assuming the babau doesn't counterspell him, cleric laughs hysterically as none of them can really hurt him anyway</p><p>Eidolon, in the unlikely event that it's still here, moves to attack cleric, gets AoO'd due to reach on the way in and maybe/quite possibly with divine favour/bless/bulls strength up tripped, thus breaking the charge</p><p>Fighter moves in, maybe the big bad doesnt have combat reflexes and so ends up tangling heroically with him as fighters are supposed to do, but is going to find it pretty hard going against a buffed cleric without backup and with prayer and maybe archons aura debuffing him while a hound archon spams aid on the cleric</p><p></p><p>...etcetera.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So he'll be worn down - which you want - but not immediately made the partys toy.</p><p></p><p>A lot depends on just how much the BBEG knows about the PCs and how well tailored he can justifiably be to challenge them. Dismissal is the sort of thing that might need a bit of roleplaying justification. But nothing else in the above strategy does. In fact I think it's basically pretty bog standard to be honest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EUBanana, post: 5740767, member: 6676815"] If you want to put the pressure on pounce, which seemed to do a lot of damage, then use some reach weapons. If his bodyguards had long spears, combat reflexes and improved trip, the melee would be battling quite hard to get up to him, and that includes flying melee if the guy with the pike is right next to the target. If the cleric is himself enlarged he may well get an AoO before the melee guy gets in range, and break the charge with a trip. Which wouldnt be too hard if he's fully buffed, see below. Fly and death from above are really pretty trivial to stop, just have them fight indoors. I think almost all of our fights tend to be indoors anyway, and dungeons are traditional after all. I'm curious what his AC was if he was taking damage from wolverines of all things. If he was fully buffed then he has to have had an AC of, say, 24 (buckler +2, breastplate +2, dex 14, dodge feat. Before any real buffs, thats with magic vestment +2s. A wolverine would be needing, what, 19+ at the very best? You can pretty much ignore summoned critters that much weaker than you. If you wanted to give him more on the cheap, heavy armour proficiency and banded mail, AC 27 then before magic items and short duration buffs. Even the eidolon isn't going to hit that easily without death from above, which he will only get if you as a DM allow it, essentially. Cruel DMs can add potions of barkskin as required for another couple of points, each point becomes all important as the target number approaches 20. Fully buffed, well. For a 10th level cleric that could be the kitchen sink. At a bare minimum I would assume that is a summoned critter (lantern archon, hound archon, babau), divine favor, bless, bulls strength, owls wisdom and prayer timed to go off in the first round, when the PCs are just starting to deploy. If you're really going for it though, then theres righteous might which gives DR - very useful against huge numbers of attacks coming in, and reach, and more strength, masses of summoning for things to get in the way and spam their 'at wills', aid on everybody cast by the aforementioned hound archon, silence cast on one of his minions to charge and disrupt bards and spellcasters when battle is joined... So it's gonna be more like... Summoner buffs eidolon, if he's lucky and the babau in the shadows doesn't counterspell him, eidolon runs into flying lantern archon because its in the way, kills it presumably as its runty, but still has to make save for archon aura from the nearby hound archon. As does everybody else. Fighter charges, kills a pleb, thats his job. Bad guy casts prayer, all PCs get weaker by a level, all bad guys get better by a level effectively Bard sings, summons a wolverine which can't actually do anything to the big bad, and theres that silence spell out there maybe. Ranger shoots, does some damage, but surely not that much because bad guys are in the way and with prayer and cover the bad guys AC is now 32 Oracle twiddles his thumbs Minion engages fighter Cleric goes to dismiss eidolon with Dismissal, DC is gonna be 19 at a conservative estimate (wisdom 16 + 4 with owls wisdom) and as this is presumably a quadruped if it has pounce, its will save is a base of +2, and he's debuffed with a prayer, unlucky Summoner summons 4 wolverines, assuming the babau doesn't counterspell him, cleric laughs hysterically as none of them can really hurt him anyway Eidolon, in the unlikely event that it's still here, moves to attack cleric, gets AoO'd due to reach on the way in and maybe/quite possibly with divine favour/bless/bulls strength up tripped, thus breaking the charge Fighter moves in, maybe the big bad doesnt have combat reflexes and so ends up tangling heroically with him as fighters are supposed to do, but is going to find it pretty hard going against a buffed cleric without backup and with prayer and maybe archons aura debuffing him while a hound archon spams aid on the cleric ...etcetera. So he'll be worn down - which you want - but not immediately made the partys toy. A lot depends on just how much the BBEG knows about the PCs and how well tailored he can justifiably be to challenge them. Dismissal is the sort of thing that might need a bit of roleplaying justification. But nothing else in the above strategy does. In fact I think it's basically pretty bog standard to be honest. [/QUOTE]
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