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Help balancing a Humanoid Dragon class
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<blockquote data-quote="Benjamin Olson" data-source="post: 8198291" data-attributes="member: 6988941"><p>I think perhaps fundamentally the person who did the 5e Magus conversion you based this off of probably didn't have a terribly great grasp on 5e. A handful of the issues here:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See this isn't very 5e oriented at all. Basic Arcane Foci generally just have fairly nominal costs of 20 gold or less which wouldn't work. Magical items don't have specific costs. Definitely drop this whole incompatible mechanic about arcane focus gold value.</p><p></p><p>A circumstantial -2 on all spells is the sort of incremental bonus or penalty that 5e generally avoids. If it doesn't bother you it doesn't bother you, but it is a system style mismatch.</p><p></p><p>Lots of spells don't have DCs or attack rolls, so this is just free quickening on those. Quickening is an expensive metamagic for Sorcerers (especially at the level this is given out), this doesn't really seem balanced with that.</p><p></p><p>Sorcerers can't quicken spells with long casting times, so that is very powerful. The cumulative -4 penalty on these is largely irrelevant because few such spells have saving throws and none have attack rolls.</p><p></p><p>In 5e Eldritch Knights, Valor Bards, and (post-Tashas) Bladesingers all have abilities to weave cantrips and/or leveled spells with weapon attacks. Something modeled after any of those approaches would be more balanced.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In no case should this class get a second extra attack a level earlier than Fighters do. Whether this class should get it at all is a different issue (my vote would be no, or only under special circumstances), but having it before level 11 is just not in line with other classes.</p><p></p><p>I'd be another vote for not getting the first extra attack until level 6, like Bladesingers and Martial Bards. Having it at 5 is equivalent to changing the Magus to full base attack bonus progression.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This would be a prime example of not suited for 5e. There should not be abilities based on number of HD enemies have. This is almost never a factor in 5e so it is a weird thing to make the DM look up. And it seems to be always on so they have to look it up all the time for every creature. And having it always on to frighten low level enemies is a very 3.x mindset, of having low level enemies become completely obsolete non-threats. It's not a bounded accuracy friendly mechanic. And a +2 persuasion bonus on non-hostile ones is rather finicky for 5e. And shouldn't it be intimidation?</p><p></p><p>An equivalent 5e ability would be a once per day (or once per rest, or proficiency bonus per day) ability to frighten creatures of any size or gain advantage on intimidation checks. It should have a set range.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Benjamin Olson, post: 8198291, member: 6988941"] I think perhaps fundamentally the person who did the 5e Magus conversion you based this off of probably didn't have a terribly great grasp on 5e. A handful of the issues here: See this isn't very 5e oriented at all. Basic Arcane Foci generally just have fairly nominal costs of 20 gold or less which wouldn't work. Magical items don't have specific costs. Definitely drop this whole incompatible mechanic about arcane focus gold value. A circumstantial -2 on all spells is the sort of incremental bonus or penalty that 5e generally avoids. If it doesn't bother you it doesn't bother you, but it is a system style mismatch. Lots of spells don't have DCs or attack rolls, so this is just free quickening on those. Quickening is an expensive metamagic for Sorcerers (especially at the level this is given out), this doesn't really seem balanced with that. Sorcerers can't quicken spells with long casting times, so that is very powerful. The cumulative -4 penalty on these is largely irrelevant because few such spells have saving throws and none have attack rolls. In 5e Eldritch Knights, Valor Bards, and (post-Tashas) Bladesingers all have abilities to weave cantrips and/or leveled spells with weapon attacks. Something modeled after any of those approaches would be more balanced. In no case should this class get a second extra attack a level earlier than Fighters do. Whether this class should get it at all is a different issue (my vote would be no, or only under special circumstances), but having it before level 11 is just not in line with other classes. I'd be another vote for not getting the first extra attack until level 6, like Bladesingers and Martial Bards. Having it at 5 is equivalent to changing the Magus to full base attack bonus progression. This would be a prime example of not suited for 5e. There should not be abilities based on number of HD enemies have. This is almost never a factor in 5e so it is a weird thing to make the DM look up. And it seems to be always on so they have to look it up all the time for every creature. And having it always on to frighten low level enemies is a very 3.x mindset, of having low level enemies become completely obsolete non-threats. It's not a bounded accuracy friendly mechanic. And a +2 persuasion bonus on non-hostile ones is rather finicky for 5e. And shouldn't it be intimidation? An equivalent 5e ability would be a once per day (or once per rest, or proficiency bonus per day) ability to frighten creatures of any size or gain advantage on intimidation checks. It should have a set range. [/QUOTE]
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