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Help making my players sweat? (My players, don't look!)
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<blockquote data-quote="Magesmiley" data-source="post: 3105016" data-attributes="member: 26292"><p>That's quite a tangle of stuff.</p><p>Let's see... </p><p></p><p>The gold dragon is pretty close to the party, so between the gold dragon and party a EL 16 is probably an "average" fight for those characters. I'd probably base the big bad guys off that number.</p><p></p><p>The lower powered helpers (the coautl, cleric, and warforged fighters) would probably be looking around a EL 10 as an "average" encounter. This would be a good target for minions and helpers.</p><p></p><p>So, bumping the numbers up for your ultimate encounter, Probably EL 19-20 total for the big stuff and EL 13-14 for the little stuff. Keep in mind that you want to spread this out over multiple creatures, otherwise its probably going to be overkill.</p><p></p><p>I think I'd go for a mixed bag of abilities for the minions... how about: 2 vrocks, 2 spectres, 2 cloud giant skeletons. Toss in an 9th-level vampire spellcaster. That should be roughly a CR 14 encounter. The spectres are low enough in power that they could conceivably be turned, however the cloud giants are a different matter. There could even be a turning/bolstering fight over the undead too.</p><p></p><p>For the big bad guys... consider taking a marilith and tricking it out a bit with some extra abilities. A couple of fighter levels for extra feats, maybe a single cleric level to give it access to divine feats (there's one which gives a bonus on weapon damage based on CHA bonus if I recall) or maybe a level of rogue for the sneak attack damage. Here's one thought...</p><p>Marilith fighter/1 + either cleric/1 or rogue/1 = CR18</p><p>Give it magical mithral full plate (say +2 or +3), add a ring of protection (again +2 or +3) and the AC bonus ioun stone. Make all of the melee weapons defender swords (say +2 or so each). This brings the marilith's AC up into the 40s, and by applying the defender swords into the 50s. It might even be able to hit 60 by using combat expertise. A very nasty challenge for melee fighting types, but possibly beatable by shifting tactics a bit from straight smash the enemy. For added entertainment give the marilith the large and in charge feat as well.</p><p></p><p>So... EL 18 for the marilith. EL 15 for the Ak'chazar Rekshasa. Add in a pair of standard rakshasa goons with 2 levels of fighter (EL 14), a pair of dread wraiths (EL 13), and a pair of hezrou (EL 13), and I think you should be roughly around EL 19-20.</p><p></p><p>So the opponents include:</p><p>marilith (with fighter/1 cleric/1 and decked out with armor and defender weapons)</p><p>Ak'chazar Rekshasa</p><p>2 Rakshasa goons (with 2 levels of fighter)</p><p>2 dread wraiths</p><p>2 hezrou</p><p>9th-level vampire spellcaster</p><p>2 vrocks</p><p>2 spectres</p><p>2 cloud giant skeletons</p><p></p><p>Only one opponent of a higher CR than the party (the marilith) with a 2nd of equal CR, those two should give the party lots of grief taking them down. Both have some helpers that are only a few CRs lower than the party that can help run interference for them. Lots of extra stuff that the party's helpers can deal with, but which the party can handle faster. </p><p></p><p>Don't forget that the spectres and wraiths are incorporeal - have them rise up from the floor or fly at inopportune moments. </p><p></p><p>The vampire should hang back and mostly do buff spells, tossing the occasional damaging spell towards the party. You might also consider setting the vampire up as a counterspell specialist and use it to foil the party's spells. Don't necessarily let on that its a vampire either!</p><p></p><p>The marilith should wade into melee, assisted by the hezrou and vrocks. Combined they should be pretty nasty. Make sure they use their abilities as appropriate.</p><p></p><p>Take advantage of the cloud giant skeleton's reach. It can be quite nasty.</p><p></p><p>This should be quite a battle. Let us know how it turns out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Magesmiley, post: 3105016, member: 26292"] That's quite a tangle of stuff. Let's see... The gold dragon is pretty close to the party, so between the gold dragon and party a EL 16 is probably an "average" fight for those characters. I'd probably base the big bad guys off that number. The lower powered helpers (the coautl, cleric, and warforged fighters) would probably be looking around a EL 10 as an "average" encounter. This would be a good target for minions and helpers. So, bumping the numbers up for your ultimate encounter, Probably EL 19-20 total for the big stuff and EL 13-14 for the little stuff. Keep in mind that you want to spread this out over multiple creatures, otherwise its probably going to be overkill. I think I'd go for a mixed bag of abilities for the minions... how about: 2 vrocks, 2 spectres, 2 cloud giant skeletons. Toss in an 9th-level vampire spellcaster. That should be roughly a CR 14 encounter. The spectres are low enough in power that they could conceivably be turned, however the cloud giants are a different matter. There could even be a turning/bolstering fight over the undead too. For the big bad guys... consider taking a marilith and tricking it out a bit with some extra abilities. A couple of fighter levels for extra feats, maybe a single cleric level to give it access to divine feats (there's one which gives a bonus on weapon damage based on CHA bonus if I recall) or maybe a level of rogue for the sneak attack damage. Here's one thought... Marilith fighter/1 + either cleric/1 or rogue/1 = CR18 Give it magical mithral full plate (say +2 or +3), add a ring of protection (again +2 or +3) and the AC bonus ioun stone. Make all of the melee weapons defender swords (say +2 or so each). This brings the marilith's AC up into the 40s, and by applying the defender swords into the 50s. It might even be able to hit 60 by using combat expertise. A very nasty challenge for melee fighting types, but possibly beatable by shifting tactics a bit from straight smash the enemy. For added entertainment give the marilith the large and in charge feat as well. So... EL 18 for the marilith. EL 15 for the Ak'chazar Rekshasa. Add in a pair of standard rakshasa goons with 2 levels of fighter (EL 14), a pair of dread wraiths (EL 13), and a pair of hezrou (EL 13), and I think you should be roughly around EL 19-20. So the opponents include: marilith (with fighter/1 cleric/1 and decked out with armor and defender weapons) Ak'chazar Rekshasa 2 Rakshasa goons (with 2 levels of fighter) 2 dread wraiths 2 hezrou 9th-level vampire spellcaster 2 vrocks 2 spectres 2 cloud giant skeletons Only one opponent of a higher CR than the party (the marilith) with a 2nd of equal CR, those two should give the party lots of grief taking them down. Both have some helpers that are only a few CRs lower than the party that can help run interference for them. Lots of extra stuff that the party's helpers can deal with, but which the party can handle faster. Don't forget that the spectres and wraiths are incorporeal - have them rise up from the floor or fly at inopportune moments. The vampire should hang back and mostly do buff spells, tossing the occasional damaging spell towards the party. You might also consider setting the vampire up as a counterspell specialist and use it to foil the party's spells. Don't necessarily let on that its a vampire either! The marilith should wade into melee, assisted by the hezrou and vrocks. Combined they should be pretty nasty. Make sure they use their abilities as appropriate. Take advantage of the cloud giant skeleton's reach. It can be quite nasty. This should be quite a battle. Let us know how it turns out. [/QUOTE]
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