Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Help Me Make My Skill Challenge Fun
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6658724" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Here's my take on this: combat incentivises players to leave all the rolling up to the PC with the highest bonus, too.</p><p></p><p>How do we avoid that for combat? We don't just have the orcs form a line and duel with the fighter one-on-one. Rather, the orcs attack all the PCs at once, <em>forcing</em> the wizard to do something about them even though the wizard isn't as good at orc-fighting as the fighter is.</p><p></p><p>Do the same thing in a SC. If you (as GM) want the player of the low-CHA dwarf fighter to make a Diplomacy check, <em>have an NPC talk to his/her PC</em>!</p><p></p><p>If you want the player of the low-STR wizard to make an Athletics check, <em>narrate a door slamming shut in his/her face as s/he tries to pass through the doorway</em>.</p><p></p><p>Etc.</p><p></p><p>In the social case, another player can always narrate that his/her PC talks over the dwarf and answers the question. But (i) that probably changes the fiction - the NPC was talking to the dwarf, not the interrupter, (ii) that therefore probably changes the DC of the Diplomacy check, and (iii) that probably makes the dwarf fighter look ineffective, which should have consequences into the future.</p><p></p><p>In the door case, another player can narrate that his/her PC leaps into the doorway to hold the door open, but that probably requires spending some sort of mechanical resource to perform an interrupt - in my game, our default rule is that an Action Point can be spent to perform an interrupt like that in the context of a skill challenge.</p><p></p><p>Absolutely this.</p><p></p><p>From DMG p 74:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">You describe the environment, listen to the players’ responses, let them make their skill checks, and narrate the results.</p><p></p><p>From DMG2 p 83:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Each skill check in a challenge should accomplish one of the following goals:</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Introduce a new option that the PCs can pursue, a path to success they didn't know existed;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Change the situation, such as by sending the PC's to a new location, introducing a new NPC, or adding a complication;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Grant the players a tangible consequence for the check's success or failure (as appropriate), one that influences their subsequent decisions.</p> </p><p></p><p>I think this is one approach but not at all mandatory. (Maybe it depends what "more difficult" means.)</p><p></p><p>I don't think that the challenge has to become <em>mechanically</em> any more difficult in this sort of situation. What seems just as likely is that the players are going to change their goal - perhaps to one of "escaping alive". At least in my experience, more important than having the results of individual checks effect difficulty is having them <em>make a difference to what is actually happening in the imagined gameworld</em>. The players should feel that their choices, and rolls, are making things <em>interesting</em> in ways that otherwise wouldn't have happened.</p><p></p><p>Much like combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6658724, member: 42582"] Here's my take on this: combat incentivises players to leave all the rolling up to the PC with the highest bonus, too. How do we avoid that for combat? We don't just have the orcs form a line and duel with the fighter one-on-one. Rather, the orcs attack all the PCs at once, [I]forcing[/I] the wizard to do something about them even though the wizard isn't as good at orc-fighting as the fighter is. Do the same thing in a SC. If you (as GM) want the player of the low-CHA dwarf fighter to make a Diplomacy check, [I]have an NPC talk to his/her PC[/I]! If you want the player of the low-STR wizard to make an Athletics check, [I]narrate a door slamming shut in his/her face as s/he tries to pass through the doorway[/I]. Etc. In the social case, another player can always narrate that his/her PC talks over the dwarf and answers the question. But (i) that probably changes the fiction - the NPC was talking to the dwarf, not the interrupter, (ii) that therefore probably changes the DC of the Diplomacy check, and (iii) that probably makes the dwarf fighter look ineffective, which should have consequences into the future. In the door case, another player can narrate that his/her PC leaps into the doorway to hold the door open, but that probably requires spending some sort of mechanical resource to perform an interrupt - in my game, our default rule is that an Action Point can be spent to perform an interrupt like that in the context of a skill challenge. Absolutely this. From DMG p 74: [indent]You describe the environment, listen to the players’ responses, let them make their skill checks, and narrate the results.[/indent] From DMG2 p 83: [indent]Each skill check in a challenge should accomplish one of the following goals: [indent]Introduce a new option that the PCs can pursue, a path to success they didn't know existed; Change the situation, such as by sending the PC's to a new location, introducing a new NPC, or adding a complication; Grant the players a tangible consequence for the check's success or failure (as appropriate), one that influences their subsequent decisions.[/indent][/indent] I think this is one approach but not at all mandatory. (Maybe it depends what "more difficult" means.) I don't think that the challenge has to become [I]mechanically[/I] any more difficult in this sort of situation. What seems just as likely is that the players are going to change their goal - perhaps to one of "escaping alive". At least in my experience, more important than having the results of individual checks effect difficulty is having them [I]make a difference to what is actually happening in the imagined gameworld[/I]. The players should feel that their choices, and rolls, are making things [I]interesting[/I] in ways that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Much like combat. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Help Me Make My Skill Challenge Fun
Top