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Help me run a campaign for a bunch of 12 year olds.
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6284647" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>It occurred to me, but I was like 10 or 11 and while the text is somewhat suggestive of that tension, there is not even a single example of how to that in the text. Not one breadcrumb leads you to go, "Heh, this tribe would ally itself with me if I did X." It's not altogether obvious what you'd give a tribe, and it is certainly not obvious that they'd trust you or you'd have reason to trust them. The obvious things to give them - suits of armor for example - you don't have the money to buy and if it were discovered that you were arming the tribes, it probably wouldn't go well with you back at the keep. So that's the same as throwing in with chaos. You could give them slaves, they seem to like slaves, but what are you going to do - kidnap them from the Keep? There are voluminous notes on how the tribes organize to defend themselves, but there are basically no notes on what resources the tribes control or lack. There are certainly no resource nodes - a fungal garden of food stuffs, a well, a brewery, etc. The closest is the armory that the hobgoblins have, but they don't have a forge or anything. It's far from obvious even to the DM, much less to players that don't have the notes telling them that the individual tribes hate each other. </p><p></p><p>Besides, you said it yourself, "The caves are inhabited by monsters who are hostile to civilization. Those monsters have treasure. Adventurers venture into dangerous places such as the caves in search of treasure. The bulk of adventuring XP comes from finding treasure." It's certainly not obvious to 10-11 year old new players that charging in, killing things and taking their stuff isn't the thing you are supposed to do - and none of the notes on the tribes suggest their first strategy is parley.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure there is an interesting adventure in there somewhere that involves pitting the monsters against each other, but with no hints how to set that up in the text, I think it's pretty ridiculous to think that that is going to be the way it is going to play. To be honest, even today, I think that the main focus of how these groups hate and distrust each other is to provide justification for them not presenting a united front and just wiping out the low level adventurers expected of the module.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6284647, member: 4937"] It occurred to me, but I was like 10 or 11 and while the text is somewhat suggestive of that tension, there is not even a single example of how to that in the text. Not one breadcrumb leads you to go, "Heh, this tribe would ally itself with me if I did X." It's not altogether obvious what you'd give a tribe, and it is certainly not obvious that they'd trust you or you'd have reason to trust them. The obvious things to give them - suits of armor for example - you don't have the money to buy and if it were discovered that you were arming the tribes, it probably wouldn't go well with you back at the keep. So that's the same as throwing in with chaos. You could give them slaves, they seem to like slaves, but what are you going to do - kidnap them from the Keep? There are voluminous notes on how the tribes organize to defend themselves, but there are basically no notes on what resources the tribes control or lack. There are certainly no resource nodes - a fungal garden of food stuffs, a well, a brewery, etc. The closest is the armory that the hobgoblins have, but they don't have a forge or anything. It's far from obvious even to the DM, much less to players that don't have the notes telling them that the individual tribes hate each other. Besides, you said it yourself, "The caves are inhabited by monsters who are hostile to civilization. Those monsters have treasure. Adventurers venture into dangerous places such as the caves in search of treasure. The bulk of adventuring XP comes from finding treasure." It's certainly not obvious to 10-11 year old new players that charging in, killing things and taking their stuff isn't the thing you are supposed to do - and none of the notes on the tribes suggest their first strategy is parley. I'm sure there is an interesting adventure in there somewhere that involves pitting the monsters against each other, but with no hints how to set that up in the text, I think it's pretty ridiculous to think that that is going to be the way it is going to play. To be honest, even today, I think that the main focus of how these groups hate and distrust each other is to provide justification for them not presenting a united front and just wiping out the low level adventurers expected of the module. [/QUOTE]
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