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General Tabletop Discussion
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Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6969431" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>I would love to have your players. No, no sarcasm, Flamestrike. I really am convinced this is the easiest and therefore best option.</p><p></p><p>It's just that my players would never not work to avoid this. They always have a point man, ideally an expendable one. </p><p></p><p>The end result is that the monsters almost never get that close before Initiative is rolled.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't help that D&D starts off by giving player characters better skill scores than almost all monsters. Once your Passive Perception is well past 15, non-supernatural monsters simply can't compete any longer.</p><p></p><p>Then add how D&D is chock full of goodies on top, and the deal is sealed. (Just a single example: my party has the perfect scout - it flies, it's invisible and it's expendable: a Warlock Imp familiar)</p><p></p><p>So a band of goblins would probably be smart and alert enough to shoot down the Imp, but their ambush would still be ruined.</p><p></p><p>A pack of wolves would probably not understand the Imp's noises, and would probably never become aware of the party until they're all Fireballed.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean I'm not on your side Flamestrike. The only difference is that I acknowledge the way the rules absolutely prevent any mystique or fog of war. Sure you can add that, but then you need to selectively ignore some rules and hope for non-optimal behavior from the group.</p><p></p><p>And by non-optimal, I mean in a deal-the-most-damage-while-taking-as-little-damage-ourselves way. In a "maximize the immersiveness and fun" way, your way definitely wins out.</p><p></p><p>For newbies and carebears the game probably works alright. It's just that to make the game fun and immersive in the hands of minmaxers and hardened murderhobos, the rules need to be made way less generous.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6969431, member: 12731"] I would love to have your players. No, no sarcasm, Flamestrike. I really am convinced this is the easiest and therefore best option. It's just that my players would never not work to avoid this. They always have a point man, ideally an expendable one. The end result is that the monsters almost never get that close before Initiative is rolled. It doesn't help that D&D starts off by giving player characters better skill scores than almost all monsters. Once your Passive Perception is well past 15, non-supernatural monsters simply can't compete any longer. Then add how D&D is chock full of goodies on top, and the deal is sealed. (Just a single example: my party has the perfect scout - it flies, it's invisible and it's expendable: a Warlock Imp familiar) So a band of goblins would probably be smart and alert enough to shoot down the Imp, but their ambush would still be ruined. A pack of wolves would probably not understand the Imp's noises, and would probably never become aware of the party until they're all Fireballed. This doesn't mean I'm not on your side Flamestrike. The only difference is that I acknowledge the way the rules absolutely prevent any mystique or fog of war. Sure you can add that, but then you need to selectively ignore some rules and hope for non-optimal behavior from the group. And by non-optimal, I mean in a deal-the-most-damage-while-taking-as-little-damage-ourselves way. In a "maximize the immersiveness and fun" way, your way definitely wins out. For newbies and carebears the game probably works alright. It's just that to make the game fun and immersive in the hands of minmaxers and hardened murderhobos, the rules need to be made way less generous. [/QUOTE]
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Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
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