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Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6978694" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>It sounds like the reason recon isn't a big thing at your table is because you've never seriously tried it. (But see below.) If an invisible Shadow Monk, or an invisible Sprite, opens a door and there's an bad guy on the other side (e.g. hobgoblin captain), what happens? From what you describe it sounds like your DM would say "roll initiative", but what if the monk or spite just says, "I keep hiding" and moves on? The hobgoblin captain may or may not get spooked into sounding a general alert, but unless your DM is the type who would otherwise have let you catch the hobgoblins unarmored (AC 11), what do you care even if he does? Getting to watch the enemy's procedures when he goes on alert is valuable intel. As long as you survive to get your info back to your buddies (automatic for a Sprite), you're doing your job.</p><p></p><p>If your DM <em>would</em> let you catch the hobgoblins out of armor then obviously everything changes and you want to sneak in, map the areas where off-duty unarmored hobgoblins are as best you can without alerting anyone, and then go fetch the rest of the party and conduct an entirely assault in less than ten minutes (the time it takes to don heavy armor). So the value of recon goes up, but the costs of being detected go up too.</p><p></p><p>Of course it also depends on your reasons for invading the hobgoblin lair in the first place. If this is a hostage rescue mission, you obviously don't want to spook the hobgoblins into killing hostages.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's exactly what happens when you don't do recon, and/or your DM is a Combat As Sport type who denies players the benefit of recon because it makes things "too easy". Either that, or he's a Combat As War DM who's got the difficulty cranked waaaaay up. (Not that I disapprove of high difficulty.) If sneaking through "thousands of devils" to assassinate their leader is a typical mission, then yes, I agree that stealth is at a premium and you really can't afford to give the enemy the slightest warning or they will utterly annihilate you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That sounds like a fun scenario. Congratulations on surviving. I bet you've got a reputation with the devils now. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6978694, member: 6787650"] It sounds like the reason recon isn't a big thing at your table is because you've never seriously tried it. (But see below.) If an invisible Shadow Monk, or an invisible Sprite, opens a door and there's an bad guy on the other side (e.g. hobgoblin captain), what happens? From what you describe it sounds like your DM would say "roll initiative", but what if the monk or spite just says, "I keep hiding" and moves on? The hobgoblin captain may or may not get spooked into sounding a general alert, but unless your DM is the type who would otherwise have let you catch the hobgoblins unarmored (AC 11), what do you care even if he does? Getting to watch the enemy's procedures when he goes on alert is valuable intel. As long as you survive to get your info back to your buddies (automatic for a Sprite), you're doing your job. If your DM [I]would[/I] let you catch the hobgoblins out of armor then obviously everything changes and you want to sneak in, map the areas where off-duty unarmored hobgoblins are as best you can without alerting anyone, and then go fetch the rest of the party and conduct an entirely assault in less than ten minutes (the time it takes to don heavy armor). So the value of recon goes up, but the costs of being detected go up too. Of course it also depends on your reasons for invading the hobgoblin lair in the first place. If this is a hostage rescue mission, you obviously don't want to spook the hobgoblins into killing hostages. That's exactly what happens when you don't do recon, and/or your DM is a Combat As Sport type who denies players the benefit of recon because it makes things "too easy". Either that, or he's a Combat As War DM who's got the difficulty cranked waaaaay up. (Not that I disapprove of high difficulty.) If sneaking through "thousands of devils" to assassinate their leader is a typical mission, then yes, I agree that stealth is at a premium and you really can't afford to give the enemy the slightest warning or they will utterly annihilate you. That sounds like a fun scenario. Congratulations on surviving. I bet you've got a reputation with the devils now. :-) [/QUOTE]
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