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<blockquote data-quote="Redbadge" data-source="post: 7784880" data-attributes="member: 61463"><p>So is it that you don’t think things like feat-based multiclassing, items with levels and rarity (whose greater versions with higher pluses are included in a table in the item stat block just like 4e) available via wishlist, and the entire character framework being a unified automatic level based progression (not only automatic scaling of attacks, defenses, skills, and initiative every level, but also the assumption of a starting 18 in the prime stat, and multi-ability boosts and assumed item bonuses at certain levels baked into the unified math) are reminiscent of 4e... or that 5e has a greater percentage of these types of mechanics that are superficially similar to PF2? Perhaps you agree with Zaardnaar that many of these 4e type inspirations are also present in other games, in which case I feel that perhaps 4e was also inspired by those games when developing mechanics (and it turns out that 4e and PF2 were both inspired by the same design). Most of things that PF2 has in common with 5e, such as short rests and nonmagical healing, consolidated skill lists, subclasses, and more powerful at-will cantrips based on the caster’s primary stat, are all things that I find that 5e also has in common with 4e (obviously because they were some of the better 4e elements that were retained when designing 5e).</p><p></p><p>As for things like the free action 5’ step and flat-footed being in Pathfinder, my point wasn’t that these concepts weren’t present in Pathfinder, but were present in Pathfinder 2 and 4e, it was that both PF2 and 4e updated these concepts in exactly the same way. A Step is practically identical to 4e’s Shift and Flat-Footed is practically identical to Combat Advantage. To say so otherwise would be debating in bad faith.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Redbadge, post: 7784880, member: 61463"] So is it that you don’t think things like feat-based multiclassing, items with levels and rarity (whose greater versions with higher pluses are included in a table in the item stat block just like 4e) available via wishlist, and the entire character framework being a unified automatic level based progression (not only automatic scaling of attacks, defenses, skills, and initiative every level, but also the assumption of a starting 18 in the prime stat, and multi-ability boosts and assumed item bonuses at certain levels baked into the unified math) are reminiscent of 4e... or that 5e has a greater percentage of these types of mechanics that are superficially similar to PF2? Perhaps you agree with Zaardnaar that many of these 4e type inspirations are also present in other games, in which case I feel that perhaps 4e was also inspired by those games when developing mechanics (and it turns out that 4e and PF2 were both inspired by the same design). Most of things that PF2 has in common with 5e, such as short rests and nonmagical healing, consolidated skill lists, subclasses, and more powerful at-will cantrips based on the caster’s primary stat, are all things that I find that 5e also has in common with 4e (obviously because they were some of the better 4e elements that were retained when designing 5e). As for things like the free action 5’ step and flat-footed being in Pathfinder, my point wasn’t that these concepts weren’t present in Pathfinder, but were present in Pathfinder 2 and 4e, it was that both PF2 and 4e updated these concepts in exactly the same way. A Step is practically identical to 4e’s Shift and Flat-Footed is practically identical to Combat Advantage. To say so otherwise would be debating in bad faith. [/QUOTE]
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