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<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 7784925" data-attributes="member: 19857"><p>Or any game developed in recent decades that isn't intentionally trying to project an aura of being "old school". You might as well say it's "very FATE" or "very PbtA". </p><p></p><p>The thing about these write-ups is that they have the tags and the symbols and the color boxes and are still giant walls of 3e-style rules write-ups. It feels like they're using tags and icons and color to allow them to fit more rules into a stat block instead of to simplify what was presented in the stat block (which is what 4e did - the use of those elements was to cut the amount of text down, not to figure out a way to have more rules into the stat block without adding more text).</p><p></p><p>Although I will argue about the color here - in a 4e monster stat block color was only used to visually break up the text to make it easier to find things. Shaded rows were used to highlight the different actions a monster had available to them on a turn, so that the DM could easily see at a glance turn-to-turn what actions they had available to them. The colored rows at the top of the block were used to hold identifying information (monster name, type, level, size, etc.) and make it obvious where the write-up started. In contrast, the PF2 write-ups barely have any color in them at all - the only color on the page is for color-coding their alignment, size, and type keywords (fey, etc.). </p><p></p><p>This is why I say it's not like 4e at all - the 4e monster stat block was designed from the ground up to be easy for a DM to use straight out of the book at the table. That was a stated design goal by the 4e design team mentioned in interviews. These stat blocks clearly do not have that goal - they're designed to be used the same way as a 3e or 5e stat block and have the same barriers to use at the table as either of those.</p><p></p><p>ETA:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Naw - I'm in the opposite camp here <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> I'd love to see someone pick up the ball that 4e dropped and turn out a good D&D-descendant that gives me solid easy-to-play DM tools, a decent tactical game on the table, and players enough options to make my players happy. As it stands I'll just keep running 4e (or Gamma World) when I need that itch scratched, but it would be nice to see someone pick it up. My objection is that PF2 isn't that from what I've seen - it's a different kind of 3e descendant than 4e was. Which is fine - I'm sure there are going to be folks who enjoy it - but every time someone points and says "look it's like 4e" I get disappointed because it isn't. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jer, post: 7784925, member: 19857"] Or any game developed in recent decades that isn't intentionally trying to project an aura of being "old school". You might as well say it's "very FATE" or "very PbtA". The thing about these write-ups is that they have the tags and the symbols and the color boxes and are still giant walls of 3e-style rules write-ups. It feels like they're using tags and icons and color to allow them to fit more rules into a stat block instead of to simplify what was presented in the stat block (which is what 4e did - the use of those elements was to cut the amount of text down, not to figure out a way to have more rules into the stat block without adding more text). Although I will argue about the color here - in a 4e monster stat block color was only used to visually break up the text to make it easier to find things. Shaded rows were used to highlight the different actions a monster had available to them on a turn, so that the DM could easily see at a glance turn-to-turn what actions they had available to them. The colored rows at the top of the block were used to hold identifying information (monster name, type, level, size, etc.) and make it obvious where the write-up started. In contrast, the PF2 write-ups barely have any color in them at all - the only color on the page is for color-coding their alignment, size, and type keywords (fey, etc.). This is why I say it's not like 4e at all - the 4e monster stat block was designed from the ground up to be easy for a DM to use straight out of the book at the table. That was a stated design goal by the 4e design team mentioned in interviews. These stat blocks clearly do not have that goal - they're designed to be used the same way as a 3e or 5e stat block and have the same barriers to use at the table as either of those. ETA: Naw - I'm in the opposite camp here ;) I'd love to see someone pick up the ball that 4e dropped and turn out a good D&D-descendant that gives me solid easy-to-play DM tools, a decent tactical game on the table, and players enough options to make my players happy. As it stands I'll just keep running 4e (or Gamma World) when I need that itch scratched, but it would be nice to see someone pick it up. My objection is that PF2 isn't that from what I've seen - it's a different kind of 3e descendant than 4e was. Which is fine - I'm sure there are going to be folks who enjoy it - but every time someone points and says "look it's like 4e" I get disappointed because it isn't. ;) [/QUOTE]
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